OYP Episode 58: Ali Budd

Ali Budd, Founder, President and Principal Designer at Ali Budd Interiors, a Toronto based, international design studio, tells us about the undeniable influence of parents on one's inevitable career path, the freeing and empowering effect of unapologetically and authentically bringing your whole self to work, and the unique culture that an all-woman workforce can cultivate.

Interview

Peter Szczerba - Welcome back to the own your potential podcast where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe about how they've taken control of their career growth and lessons on how you can too. I'm Peter Szczerba and today I have the extreme pleasure of sitting down with Ali Budd -  who's the Founder, President and Principal Designer at Ali Budd -  Interiors, a Toronto-based international interior design studio.

Ali, been looking for you to getting you on the podcast. Why don't we just jump right in. Can you take us through your career journey leading up to today?

Ali Budd - Yes I can I'm very excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me, um you know it Zan's cliche but I did truly always love interior design I didn't know to call it that when I was a kid you know I don't think that there was really a context for it.

You know I was born in the early 80 s and you know this wasn't really a profession I think at that point and when it did exist but you know in different ways. Both my parents were extremely artistic. My father was an art director. Um for many years and actually.

Actually it traveled around when the 4 seasons was opening and did a lot of their shoots and it's funny because again I don't think you would call it this but he had this fascination with space and he sort of I guess.

Lord that from an art direction perspective that him and I specifically together would do a lot of different things when I was a kid I was super interested in furniture I would go to you know this is before the internet we'd drive around to antique shops you know and buy things and repinish them and.

I Just always really loved like and again it's ah it is Cliche but I would not play barbies and'd build their houses you know so this campaign I was always like reorganizing my entire house and my mom was super cool and she wouldn't make me clean it up. She would let it kind of like be and.

Explosion Whatever I created so I had that kind of background I was an ambitious person. Um, you know in life even when I was younger school was not innate for me but getting a really good education was extraordinarily important to me. You know it was. Wanted to go to University I You know wanted to explore I wanted to have options basically because I knew that I wanted to I mean make something of myself kind of sounds a little bit like dramatic but I did.

Thought I majored in English I went to Huron at Western and I thought I'd go to law school quite honestly I felt like that because I loved talking. Um and I'm pretty good at arguing and there was just certain things I loved literature I Loved analyzing you know, different meanings for things I liked.

Certain aspects of it that really appealed to me but it was also like I just something didn't feel right about it. It felt like what I should be doing. You know, not necessarily what I wanted to be doing and my father who you know, really sadly I lost.

Almost eight years ago but you know, always such a driving force in my life and I think back to this moment quite often because when I was talking through with him. You know what I wanted to do when I was nearing the point that I would have to write my lsat or you know I would have to explore sort of what my next steps were.

He said to me what are you most scared to do like if if you took everything off the table and you did something and there was no fear attached to it like what scares you the most if there was no risks to anything and you could do whatever you wanted. You know what would that be. And it's funny at the time I didn't even connect these 2 but I had read a lot about this different design schools and you know why something I knew at that point in time this was the early 2000 um, you know there was sort of more of a career opportunity in this space. It still wasn't what it is. Today I guess from a mainstream perspective. But I said I'd want to design houses I want to be an interior designer and so I didn't write my ownset. Um and I ended up going to interior design school right? after I finished my b a.

Um, and I should say because I'm actually a big advocate of postsecondary education I did not do anything directly with my English degree but I feel like you don't need to do anything directly with whatever degree you get it. There's a stupid notion that.

This thing has to lead exactly to this thing and I think there's such formative years and it was so impactful for me to be able to um, have that experience and I just feel like there's things that there's ways in which I see it show itself in my day-to-day life now in the way that I can speak in the way that I can. Um, formulate my thoughts and and the way that I can communicate with people and just this certain level of education. So I do like to throw it out there that I don't think you necessarily you know you go to school when you're 18 or 19 for like a specific reason and it's like just be yourself and learn some shit you know and.

That's kind of what I did anyway, they went to design school after that. Um and I was there for it's a school that was called the international academy of design. It's since been bought and it's been renamed. Um that I spent a few years there earning my interior design certificate. Um, it was a fun time. It was sort of a mixed bag of people and teachers and you know all these different things. Um, right after that I went to work for a large architectural firm. Um, it wasn't I hated it. It actually made me.

Lee question why I did this it was like this sort of office culture that is so I just I hated it. It was everyone's quiet all the time and it was stressful and competitive and nothing I was doing felt creative or different.

And they were lovely people and you know if anyone listening knows where I worked I don't want to knock anyone right? You know I actually learned quite a lot from my boss at the time. Um, you know there was someone there who was working there that really wasn't very nice to me I was young and I sort of thought to myself like this was you know 50 people applied for this.

Junior job that I got and optimize and I got it and I thought to myself like you know because I can kind of talk my way into things all the time. Why did I do this you know I'm like stamping firewalls on educated it. So I decided that you know I I was gonna change it up and I ended up going to work for a. Small, um, high end residential interior design firm. Um, it wasn't as like a boardwinning or you know prominent and it wasn't on King Street and it was you know in my boss's basement basically but I was so much happier and I learned. So much from her my boss her name is Robin Clark and you know I definitely consider her a mentor of mine. She was so good to me and you know really taught me a lot. She was very open with the way that she ran her business. And it allowed me to learn a lot about business in general. Um, that part of you know this world has always fascinated me um, tremendously I really love you know I we were talking briefly before and you know I love sort of combining my 2 passions.

Business and interior design and I think trying to help her grow her Business. You know it was great for me and at some point I Always knew you know I wanted to work for myself. Both my my parents ran a business my entire life they were in an ad agency I lived there. Um, you know I grew up in that office I was there all the time and. Was around you know, working adults constantly when I was a kid and you know my parents were in charge although they worked on completely separate ends of the company and I just I knew I knew that it was I needed I wanted to do something for myself. So I ended up in 2010.

Um, on like a hope and a prayer I started an interior design business in my you know tiny little house and it was just me and I would take on anything I remember there was a time that I actually had. My friends come and build Ikea furniture in someone's basement because the budget can allow for installers. Um, and you know truly slowly but surely I started to grow the business and I so got busier and busier and you know I didn't.

There was there was one night I remember I was crying and I was like I'm so overwhelmed like I don't know I don't want to say no to these things but I'm 1 person you know and how do I and what do I because like the thought of expanding is very overwhelming for a lot of people I'm my best friend who's brilliant.

Just said to me like hire someone up, you know, like you need to have the help like this is crazy like don't say no to things that you want to do just learn how to manage people right? Um and I was like okay you know it was terrifying. Um I can do this so I like did a bunch of interviews in like a Starbucks because I didn't have an office and I don't want. Weird I was coming to my house or anything like that and I ended up hiring my first employee we're still friends. Um, you know all these years later she was so fun and you know we we definitely did no idea what we were doing I was super young. She was superri young but she was so helpful to me. And that was kind of I guess what started the trajectory at some point flash forward. You know a few years I had had 2 babies. Um, you know I was again I was just so busy I had had. 2 I was going from 2 employees to 3 employees and I was still working out of my house and you know it felt like it wasn't really lining up I couldn't impli into my house right? Um I didn't want to keep meeting at Starbucks and again it was like 1 of those moments where it's like do I get an office space. You know like.

I to have my own office right? like that seems grown up you know and such a big commitment. Um and it just so happened that um one of my dearest friends who's an architect. Her name is Brenda Eisen she's a true important part of. So many aspects of my story. Um, but she actually lives two doors down from me. We were working together a lot and she was in the same position she was working out of our house and we sort of looked at each other and we're like well what if we just get an office together you know and we'll have our teams. We'll divide it. We'll figure it out.

And I literally forced her to do it. We have a picture like signing our leash. She's crying and there's like shots beside us like you know it just seemed like the biggest thing ever to get this space. Anyways, we did it together. We were so proud of ourselves that office. You know it's such a. It's a funny time. It was like that we were. Sort of I don't know just really starting to get this thing going I did definitely um, have dreams. Although I don't know necessarily what they were but somewhere sort of in and around that time very shortly after I got the office. Um, my marriage ended and I had these 2 little babies and I was absolutely terrified I have I've literally never felt fear like that in my life I had a 2 year old a 4 year old and never pictured myself being a single mom I'm a very type a person I thought. My entire life was planned out I was gonna do this I was gonna do this I was doing this I was gonna do that and then I found myself in this horrible situation where not only was I terrified for my life personally but I was terrified professionally.

You know how is I going to support my children. Um, how was I Goingnna live the life that I wanted you know I had sort of relied on my husband at the time it was almost like not like what I was doing is fun and games because of course it wasn't but it became a whole lot more serious at that point.

You know like this really needs to be something right? and you know I didn't I didn't just want a simple life. You know I wanted a big life and I still want a big life and so how was I gonna do that for myself. Um I was very distraught I was extremely overwhelmed. And Brenda my workwife. Um, who I shared the office with you know she was the first person I told in my life what it happened because it was very sudden and she sat me down and she was like okay ah like here's what we're gonna do. When you go home. You can fall apart. All you want the kids go to bed you can cry you can do this, you can do that you do what you need to do but every morning you get dressed you put on your clothes, you March your ass into this office and you own this space I don't want to see you crying here. And don't want to see you falling apart here. This is where you control your life is right here and this is where you have the opportunity to dive into your work and to build something that you have control over. Obviously I was a mom I had little children I wasn't gonna go home and fall apart. You know, but. It really empowered me sort of that moment and I was like you're right I can control what happens here and you know I started to think like how do I grow this business and what do I do and Instagram was honestly relatively new sort of at the time from a business perspective. But I knew that I could talk.

And I knew that ah you know it's like I know what I know I can do and I know what I can't do and I didn't have money for Pr I knew we were doing good work and I knew that I was like a personable person I you know I thought I could sort of get get it out there with that as a medium so I started picking up my phone like.

Every minute and I started filming all the things that we were doing at the office and I started you know, um, really and again I said to myself going through something that's that's really challenging. Um, personally.

Can shape you I think and it almost gives you a certain freedom because you're just you know I think between like the death of my father and then shortly thereafter my marriage falling Apart. You know it. It feels like you've gone through so Much. It's like you just you're exhausted like you can't you I don't know if you know what I mean but it's like. You've almost like lost your inhibition. It's like you're like freaking I'm just gonna let it go on the throw a million things the wall and miss you what sticks and for me that stop people started watching and people started messaging us and you know things just started happening based on this kind of combination of.

The work that we were doing as a team and then our personalities which was sort of different I think it was a different approach and I've sort of made a decision I'm just gonna be unapologetically myself all the time you know I'm not going to try and. But into this mold or this mold I'm a lot I'm this I have you know a big personality I'm very vocal and I felt like I didn't even realize it but I had spent so much of my time when I was younger trying to emulate different people or you know even as a designer trying to. Be like this person or be like this person or you know and I realized in these moments that I just can only be myself so I started moving forward with that. Every design decision Every business decision. My sort of the way I'm kind of unprofessional Um, you know.

All the time and I just sort of leaned into all of that and I was like you know trying to just put all of that out there for people to see and see what happened and it worked I started growing the business I hired another person and I hired another person. Um in the midst of all of this I had my first us client reach out. And I wanted it so badly I knew it didn't know how the hell I was gonna work somewhere to Toronto I had no idea what that was gonna look like for me or for my team I was going during divorce I had 2 babies but I was like you know what I want I'm gonna get it and I ended up signing.

Um, two clients who I still have a lovely relationship with in and Washington d c and they let us do their house for them. It was a big morning curve. Um, you know there's a lot but it's sort of now. All of this is kind of you know, transpired and transformed and you know from a business journey at. Taken it from there. We're in a much bigger space now I'm a team of 10 um remarried I have 3 children. My husband's also a amazing story that I can talk about because I think it plays so much into taking chances and different things. But we're working a ton in the states.

Almost as much as we're working here. We're working in New York Miami Washington and tiva and building in Costa Rica um there is a lot of really exciting things happening for the business right now you know beyond our interior design projects which. Um, is really important to me because I I I don't have a direct vision for where I want to go I don't really believe in that you know some people are like my goal my 5 year plan it's like I don't have a 5 minute plan you know I just am like really trying to look at everything that.

Presents itself for me I Always sort of say to people you know when you do this like my whole life has been looking these way like this way right? I don't know even what to do with that. It's not my personality So I'm I'm really in this place right now where I'm just trying to grab it at every opportunity that comes our way Obviously covid.

Has been extremely challenging. I had my third baby April second twenty twenty that was a shit show. You know? um, but like every day it's just you know we're climbing up and we're pushing back and you know now I feel like I'm surrounded with incredible women. My entire staff is. Email and I probably shouldn't say this but it's very much on purpose. Um, you know I I believe that women can work together in friendship and love and being supportive and quite contradictory to the way that I think women are portrayed often. Um, and that's something I'm trying to build here. It's really important to me I have you know I say wildly unprofessional relationships with my entire team but it works for us I'm not this like 9 to 5 person and I really did learn that in my first job It's not the way my brain functions. It's not the way I work I don't expect it.

Peter Szczerba - Sure. I Mean there's so much that I want to dive into right away I mean clearly you know you've done this your way which is something I Definitely want to dive into a little bit further in the conversation and which I absolutely love and admire. But I want to start maybe at the beginning because. What I heard in terms of the influence that you received from your parents in terms of your dad For example, being an art director in that space I mean it sounds like potentially fostering your ability to be creative and pursue those types of interests right.

But then also with both of them being in business. That's really the 2 halves that seem to have collided to to kind of create the way that you've approached your career down the line and for myself right? like my you know the influence I had from my father they were and and my mom they were a little bit at odds right because one with very pragmatic logical.

Create Not a creative bone in their body right? The other maybe a little more creative more naturally but not necessarily very entrepreneurial. So those didn't come together in some summative way. They might have for you were you conscious of the fact that these were kind of driving you away from let's say a more traditional like law career. As you kind of assessed that and decided this.

Ali Budd - I mean nothing traditional about my parents. Um, at all, you know they were wildly different from completely different backgrounds. Um, and.

You know they were different to everyone else's parents around me and there was times in my life where I didn't like that at all because all you want is to be the exact same as everyone else, you know when you're up but now I'm so insanely grateful for it. My dad was a.

Incredible like truly incredible man. Um, my father was the creative director at the ad agency and my mom was like the Ceo so she really ran everything from a business perspective. Um, and deal with had like dealt with heading up all of the account side of things. My father was a creative. My dad was truly like he was such a dreamer and he was the kindest man he used to make sure everyone had a cake for their birthday and everyone got their birthday off and I actually do that too like 1 of my favorites.

Okay, today she's not here. He had a summer student once that really just came from a bad situation and and had the odds stopped against her in her life and he paid for her to go to school um and he did it quietly like everything he did for other people he did.

Not to get any notoriety or he just did it like every morning and I would watch it because I would be at this office all the time because my parents were there. He would walk around to every single person's desk and at one point they had built quite a big team and he would know everything he would say Jim. How is your daughter's piano recital like. You know was it go 11 and he'd go to the next person he'd say Brooke like you know, did your what like he would just know little things about about every single person and it's funny when he died not finding how how but I remember at his funeral. It's like 1 of those moments where you're kind of like watching I can watch it back with I'm watching myself.

Almost every person that had ever worked for my father or worked with my father was there. It was like standing room only which was incredibly moving and very um, spoke to the person that he was and my mother you know, very different.

From in her demeanor. She commanded respects in a completely different way and sometimes I feel like I'm sort of this like I have both of my parents like really driving me like my mom you know Gagy's really different than other moms, especially at the time you know.

Didn't have a lot of friends whose moms had careers in the way that my mother did you know I didn't see like she was a real rule model I remember going to work and she was always dressed so well and she had her own office and.

I Knew that she was in charge of things and I knew that she was responsible for people and she was like a no bullshit like get things done and then my father it's funny was sort of like the softer the 2 of them and everyone's like confidant and this and night and I I do feel like in my own professional journey I've sort of melded Both of my parents. Together. Um, you know it. It kind of creates what I'm about as a boss and as an entrepreneur.

Peter Szczerba - Absolutely I mean I could sense that in the way that you describe your approach to Leadership. You can see elements of both right? because you're clearly not about the Bs but at the same time you build these incredibly deep relationships with your employees as you've kind of outlined but it's very clear to me. That this sort of influence has obviously built up kind of the tools and maybe a broader perspective as to what was possible for yourself that helped you have the confidence to take kind of that comment from your father around what scares you most right? That's what you should pursue to then take that and pursue it and I'm curious. That sounds like an incredible mantra to carry through in your life and has that been a way that you've approached decisions since then as well.

Ali Budd - Um, yeah, it's kind of the way I approach everything you know I feel like I'm a very decisive person I don't overthink things I execute you know if something. Feels writes me even when it's incredibly scary or it's something like I do it. You know I'm one of those people I think and that that definitely has shaped me. You know, just that that conversation. It's funny I wish I could ask him if he remembers saying it to me because I think sometimes.

You know it's a lesson You don't really know how impactful a conversation can be to someone right? But I mean I hope he does Um, but yeah I it's something I take with me all the time everywhere I go and everything I Do you know I was I met my husband unbelievably I was on a.

Girls trip in Las Vegas and she's very british and very much living in England and they're bunch of friends and you know we met and I guess I mean I never thought I'd see him again and flash forward here. We are married for almost three years another baby? um. And like that was even a moment in life where it's like what are you scared of like I met this incredible human and like I could list to a million things I was scared of I was scared of being hurt I was scared that I was seven years old or I was scared that because it sounds crazy and nobody understood what the hell I was doing you know and all these things but like it.

It was an incredible. It's like the best thing that could have ever happened to me is my husband and you know my my 3 children now and that's sort of been the theme professionally too. There's no I've made decisions that haven't worked out you know because philosophy I don't want to sit here and.

And proclaim that everything I've ever done has been successful. That's not at all the truth. But I've done it and sometimes it's it's allowed me to see in sort of like this lens that even the things that aren't successful because I've tried them and then I know they're not successful. You know and I can then sort of look back in and.

Kind of go from there.

Peter Szczerba - I love how you bring this up because I think that in a lot of these conversations. It's very easy to fall into the kind of ah common tropes of I'm an individual who works very hard I take these types of risks I have these frameworks and they all translate to the success that I am today. But. It's it's easy to forget how much these various things these various influences liked your parents now like this kind of approach to decisionmaking but paired with having supportive partners or ones that you've kind of taken risk on whether it's your your actual partner or kind of the teammates that you bring onto your team. Ah, because in even my own experience right? I I am not half the person I am without my wife as my partner and I would hope that she feels similarly about the impact I have on her and we make a team right? and that makes our respective successes in our careers possible and and even in scaling our family in our kind of home unit right. It takes kind of that sort of teamwork and and I want to bridge that into scaling your business. You've talked about going from 2 to 3 to 4 to 10 employees and in our first conversation where we kind of met each other. You talked about the fact that you very specifically and strategically pick the people you bring onto your team to highlight. You know individuals that will compliment you right? because you're you're delegating off things that maybe you're not so good at where they fill in a need gap or a stri for skill gap talk a little bit up about that approach and how you scaled your team in a way that makes you guys super dangerous as a team.

Ali Budd - Yeah, but we are super dangerous. Um, you know I Definitely I think I'm just not a rule follower in general and I have always taken that approach with hiring um and again.

Um, it's not nothing's but ego for me I don't want people to yes me you know I I'm okay with being not right? You know I'm I want collected decisions in it I Really every time we know that we've sort of needed someone else I've.

I've you know gone through applicants and I just kind of get a feeling when I speak to somebody I Truly believe that your skill set is not specific to an industry or ah, it's a skill set. It can be applied to so many different things you know, not all my employees have.

Formal design backgrounds you know, um, not all my employees have ever had a job in the way that they have a job now and I didn't care at all I think that you know what you can bring to the table so far exceeds what what position you've been in in the past and I Think. You know it's It's really just been for Me. There's a few rules. You know when I'm hiring someone that I I put Forth. Um I never want with that environment. My first you know, kind of job out of design school where it just felt tense and like you didn't want to be there and you were what.

Talk till 5 and it's like if you're I don't like competitiveness I don't want anyone to walk around eggshells I I really believe that everyone can be successful and celebrate one. Another's successes and be supportive and loving. So if you don't fall into that category. You can't be here.

You know if you're the kind of person that your success is dependent on someone else's failures like you don't fit in here so that's truly number 1 Um you know and it's really just been I think with every single person that I've hired. It's just been a feeling. It's like.

You you listen to your gut and you just know that this person is the right fit and I'm not worried about the credentials and I'm not worried about the experience. You know, Obviously you need to know certain things I'm worried about like how I feel when I speak to them and like the energy that they you know sort of exuded and their. Excitement about being here I Want a team that is like happy to walk through these doors every morning and feels passionate about what we're doing and feels like they have a say in the growth of this business and I've truly involved my entire team in honestly, almost all the decisions I've made you know I really value their input. Um, I value what they have to say I value that honestly and I think that that's made a huge difference. Nobody here is dispensable or replaceable and I invest like I mean I invest my full heart in my in my staff not only just.

Personally like professionally but personally I care genuinely about them and I I don't know sort of when maybe it's because men have ruled the world for so long and we're trying to you know change that up and offense. Um, but I do believe that there is a way to be incredibly successful and productive. But do it in this like.

Non-competitive loving funny environment and I think that our work is so good because we feel like that about one another and it's just sort of created this vibe here and now I think people see it on Instagram or you know when people walk in they they like being here and so now the applicants that.

You know we get if we're hiring understand what that looks I mean nobody can't really understand until you're here. But um I also am not a micromanager. Um I you know I'm all over the face and fairly confident I have eighty D and I was just never diagnosed but I don't and explore that because it's currently working for me so it.

Like ride it out and see what happens but I'm like all over the place all the time. Jahi is very good from a management perspective because it means that my brain focuses on so many different things and I can easily snap from this to this to this to this you know, um and my staff understand that they need to work hard but I don't care show up here at nine thirty even if you have a meeting. It's different.

Everyone's different if you got here like I have one of my employees like she's just not a morning person. You know she needs to roll in at 10 But that girl like her shit's always done so I don't care you know I believe that my team should have a lot of paid time off I believe that like there's so many different things and everyone's so.

Worried about productivity and they don't realize like when people feel valued and cared about and you accept the way that they work because we don't fit in this tiny little box that has somehow been created professionally for everyone in every office we're actually more productive.

Peter Szczerba - Absolutely and I mean what's coming through kind of with every word that you say is kind of oozing out of this conversation is your authenticity to kind of yourself. You said the words that I'm going to be unapologetically myself all the time and I can I kind of get the sense that.

You know as you go with your gut and you bring on new teammates. You're in that moment being unapologetically yourself. It's obvious how authentic you are and that you do things kind of your way which you've you've certainly outlined here and the individuals who you're interviewing they have to feel that immediately. So there's a bit of a leap of faith that happens in both directions.

You feel it in your gut. They're right, they get the feeling that what they're being brought into is the right fit because you know that type of unapologetic authenticity is gonna polarize people right? It's either It's gonna work for you or it isn't and if it does then they're jumping in with two feet and and they're gonna fit in right and I think that. That that kind of approach probably resonates through your team now and it just creates that sort of culture that you're talking about which which probably lends itself to your success but I want to I want to query a little bit on 1 word that you said because you said you don't like the idea of competitiveness maybe inside the team which I think makes a ton of sense. Everybody working Collaboratively. You don't have to you know, step on top of somebody else to to step up right? exactly right.

Ali Budd - Yeah, and we every win that everyone has here and there's some support for 1 another I feel that men are often portrayed in professional environments as being extremely catdy to 1 another and I am like the anti that you know.

Peter Szczerba - Absolutely, That's what I was gonna bridge to that's it I was gonna bridge to exactly.

Ali Budd - There's no place for that here outside office. However I one edit is like yeah I like to win you know? Um I do I I Love being in a meeting and knowing that we you know. We We got what we wanted I Love selling through Cons I mean part of what I love that my job is selling. You know it's ultimately what I'm doing at the end of the day. It's like what are we taking our vision and we're selling it through to our clients that they understand it. They bought it. You know? Um I I Love being.

And at this level you know booth we're doing quite high end residential a lot of our clients um are quite accomplished professionally to be able to afford sort of the service that we provide and to be able to go through with it. So I'm typically talking to you know, very educated people and. People that are used to commanding a room perhaps or you know things like that and I love the feeling of being able to just express how passionate I am about what we do and how proud I am of my team and you know all these different things. So the competitiveness outside like not with one another.

But and honestly here's the truth. Not even with other designers I Truly I've got great friends that are other designers in this city I Think there's crazy talent here I'm super supportive of other designers. There's room for everyone you know I don't feel like that. It's almost like I'm competitive with myself I'm like I can be very hard on myself.

Um, you know I'm top of myself. So.

Peter Szczerba - But I think that makes total sense. It doesn't I don't think competition needs to be with an adversary I think competition can simply be defined as desiring the win above all else right? which is obvious kind of what you've kind of articulated and I think that makes total sense and another thing that I got out of.

Kind of your journey as you walk us through it is this idea of of your ability to simply hustle right? like out of the gate starting this out of out of your house being willing to do whatever it takes ah to to kind of get the work done and that obviously lends itself. Well,, especially if you have that competitive nature to to succeeding. In starting your own business and scaling it. But I imagine right? just because on a much smaller scale for me right? like in my life. For example, when when my partner and I when we moved from a condo to a bigger house and we scaled our Mortgage. We're like we have to grow our income and be successful in our jobs. Otherwise. This is gonna be a rough go with with this mortgage right? And that's been an internal driver whereas for yourself, right? You had a life situation that that happened in terms of you mentioning that your marriage went in a different direction than you had expected you found yourself with kids who you wanted to build a life for you wanted a big life which I think is really important.

To be honest with oneself and it's okay to say I want that was I have to imagine that that level of urgency right? and and that desire for those things now had to help propel you forwards right? and and probably landed itself towards you being more successful than maybe otherwise.

Ali Budd - Or yeah I think it's a real pivotal moment in my life. It's funny because it's a pivotal moment personally but really truly professionally I also didn't ever want to have to rely on anyone.

You know I didn't want to have to have someone have to pay my bills or you know not be able to take that trip unless someone paid for me or not be able to do these things like I craved I Think what true independence. Financially and you know professionally and I thought to myself if I ever do get remarried which I did um but at the time like it has to only be because this is the most perfect person for me in the world. Nothing to do.

From a financial perspective like I had my children. You know it wasn't I really did it really propelled me forward and it sort of gave me no choice but to be like well you can do this Allie because you got it. Right? Like this is this is where you're at this is what you're good at and if you want this life like here's your moment. You know there's there's no other way. There's no safety net. There's no anything like this is it.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah I love that and I want to carry that kind of sentiment into into another thing that you mentioned around kind of the physical space that you had in terms of your first office and then once you had kind of these obstacles in your life.

It became the space that you could own and I think what's interesting about that is in a conversation on this podcast with another entrepreneur. He had a similarly accelerative moment in his career trajectory when he got a space in partnership with a business partner. But for them that space was more about holding themselves Accountable. It was the place they had to go every day so that way they kept pushing they kept grinding. It was a place they locked in and it was it was to hold themselves accountable to keep pushing forward and not lose drive whereas in your case.

This physical space manifested itself as like the place you own and helped you take control and I think it's a really poignant thing to talk about here particularly what your business deals with right? It's about spaces in creating the right space. So maybe talk a little bit about maybe how that physical space you know.

Became such an important piece of your success afterwards.

Ali Budd - Yeah, you know it's funny as you say it. It's something I think I probably should have thought about before it's like we're in therapy right now which also I'm big advocate of anyway. But you know you're making me see things in a different way which is so interesting space is and I'm obviously biased. This is what I do but.

Base is so important and I think throughout the pandemic you know and even if you've never thought about it before you've never cared you did care and you just didn't know you know that your surroundings and the way that things work for you and function for you or just distract you or don't distract you are. So important to your productivity to your mindset. Um, you know the way that you feel on a day-to-day basis. And yeah, it's interesting. You know I always I've always designated space in my life like I remember even growing up I would never study at home I would go to the line. I don't even another libraries anymore I have no idea go the library in university I would I would my like I my apartment my my residence my dorm room and then my ah many of community americans we don't see dorm room or whatever in Toronto but and I it would always be separate I would. Separate things in my life. So even when I worked in my house I had a room and you know tiny by I would close the door every day when I left and I remember even working oh I'd get dressed in the morning I'd never like put my laptop in my bed I needed a space that was designated so that when I was there and.

In that mindset I don't like working from home I'm not I really do work life balance is extremely important to me and I think it's extremely important to to productivity this stupid ridiculous notion that you should burn yourself out just to prove how successful you are is messed up. You know I'm.

And I don't like working at home I I prefer to be here and get done what I have to get done. Um and sometimes if I have to I have to you know I'll do it but I like to separate these 2 things that.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah I wholeheartedly agree and I am waiting for the day that my physical offices in kind of my corporate career open back up so I can go back and just channel the energy of people and kind of.

Being in a room and and creating and ideating because it's part of kind of my day and and day out work and frankly it stinks doing it through a screen honestly and and I can't wait for that day. Um, you know I want to talk a little bit now you know from spaces to places because you've scaled not just the number of people but you've also scaled. Ah, the locations in which you are are doing your work and not necessarily you know Toronto to like Ottawa or Toronto to like Mississauga you know canadian cities in the in the Southern Ontario but you're talking about like all over North America outside of North America

What type of challenges do those present for a relatively small business in scale right? in terms of number of people. How do you manage that work. How have you been able to to scale the work from there. Yeah.

Ali Budd - Lots of challenges you know I think the way in which that I run the business. Um, while creatively we're extremely diverse in the way that we undertake each project from a business perspective were very consistent. And the way that we structure each of our projects is incredibly consistent and that has allowed us to expand just the way that I run the business and the way that I run you know our design services and how we've built off of that has has lent itself extremely well. Um, to working in other places you know we we're not. We don't have meetings once a week with clients. We don't sort of pick things one at a time. We're very holistic in our approach to interior design and that um you know has has definitely lent itself while the way we do our deliveries and honestly it's it's. Trial and error and you know sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't I'm not I don't it takes a lot to really stress me out like I feel like I let a lot go and I don't know I wasn't always like that I don't I used to get very anxious and I would like internalize everything and now I don't know if it's a function of maybe.

Having been through so many things in my life really realize I always think like are you be stressed with this in six months and if the most of the time the answer is absolutely not you know? and so I don't let and let things roll off me if like something happens when we fix it. We figure it out. You know it's not worth it. It's not worth that feeling.

Um, you know, crazy anxiety. Um, and so I think we've just really, it's it's it's not just me. It's my team. You know we've sort of done it this way. Then we've tried it this way that we've done it this way and now just over time and organically I mean covid two really was a really challenging time I think. My business initially and everyone's business. You know we're still although we have a boom in interior design. We're facing a logistical nightmare. That's you know we've had to overcome and but um I think it's always just sort of trial and error and trial and error really rely on my team to. With their voices to understand what they think we can be doing better differently or you know whatever it is and we just sort of do it. You don't like H and ho about things for like 10 years You know. Let's just do it and yeah and I don't know I didn't know it's not like I had this like plan to expand the United States of America it just sort of happened.

And I just went with it right? It's like oh working Manhattan stands freak cool. So let's do that right? versus like my 5 year plan is that I would like to be in New York there was never that plan. It's just this is where this has taken me so I'm just like riding that wave.

Peter Szczerba - I love the honesty of that though because I think it's very easy to step into one of these conversations and for somebody to say yeah you know I always had the vision to expand globally or to expand in North America but but then you know to also own the fact that you are simply willing.

Ah, to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to you and are hungry to do so I think is a very cool thing and I guess you know normally I would ask at the end of 1 of these conversations some sort of sentiment or question or along the lines of what is success in ten or twenty years right whereas in this case I want to I want to shrink the scale a little bit.

And if you're talking about you're in and Nyc you're in Miami Washington and tigua etc. So what's the next city if you could pick 1 right? if you had control and if you could pick any city. Where's the next one. You'd scale to where you think would be a really cool case study for for your flavor of design.

Ali Budd - I mean I don't even really know what my flavor is I think it would be like on a different continent I Want to go So I don't know if you know being an obviously is designer any lever of fashion.

Interiors you know, being in Europe in any capacity would be truly amazing. So you know whether I don't know italy France you know I know that like brexit blah blah like b k is not part of this anymore. But you know whatever I it's It's not even just the city for me like it's really the people you know it's like I won't work for people who aren't nice. You know I parted ways with someone just a couple months ago because I could see it going in that direction and I'm really grateful that I don't.

Have to be in that Situation. We've all been in that situation where we've been like treated like shit and it's a horrible and completely unnecessary way to be in any realm of life and I never want that for my team. So The places are all amazing I go anywhere. It's more a function of for who.

Peter Szczerba - I like that and I think that that is a sentiment of following the right client or the right people interaction could probably create like the environment emotional cognitive etc to be as creative as possible to to then have the physical space.

I Guess live up to its potential in in terms of the output I Think that's very cool and I think you know obviously we've talked about you've got some really exciting things on the horizon that I you know would love an opportunity to to connect again to talk about because this conversation has been. Spectacular I like talking to folks in different industries because I think these learnings and these experiences are so transferable like you've said it doesn't matter what your profession is you know a conversation like this, you'll be able to take nuggets away and apply them into your own career.

And so I would just want to say? Thank you for the time the opportunity to chat and I really do look forward to chatting again because I know there's some cool stuff to unpack in in the coming months or year.

Ali Budd - Um I will unpack it. Thank you so much.