OYP Episode 57: Hiba Mojabber

Hiba Mojabber, Medieval Art History PhD Researcher at the University of Geneva and Associate Creative Director at Publicis Sapient, dives into what it takes to concurrently grow a successful career and pursue her passion in academia at the highest level, highlighting that it takes commitment, considerable personal sacrifice, as well as balance in order to come out on top!

Interview

Peter Szczerba - Welcome back to the own your potential podcast where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe about how they've taken control of their career growth and lessons on how you can too. I'm Peter Szczerba and today I get the opportunity to sit down with Hiba Mojabber who is a PhD Researcher in the field of Medieval Art History at the University Of Geneva and Associate Creative Director at Publicis Sapient.

Hiba, really excited to have you on the podcast today I've been looking forward to this one for some time. Why don't we just jump right in can we just go through your career journey leading up until this point.

Hiba Mojabber - Yes, sure. Thank you Peter for having me I'm very excited to be recording the podcast with you today. So I'll tell you a little bit about where I started and where I am right now and the journey in between so I sort of started. Um. College in 2004 I went to the american university of Beirut in Lebanon and I decided to pursue a graphic design degree which took me 4 years and they were very interesting 4 years and the way they teach graphic design in that university is not just. You know the discipline of design and the technicalities of it. They teach you to look at visual interpretations of various things in life and um, they push you to wonder and question. Everything you see around you so I'll give you an example of what that means. My final year. Ah thesis was around cartoons and political cartoons. So I chose to study the work of 2 cartoonists one is lebanese working during the lebanese civil war which was happening between 1919165 and the other was the work of a palestinian cartoonist representing the lebanese in his work right? So I was studying that sort of conflict through political cartoons. Um and writing about it. You know and then I created the little book of my own with cartoons so that was a very exciting experimental part of my life. Um, and this is the kind of you know, academic upbringing that I had in in my early 20 s so then I took this diploma and this this kind of education if you wish and I um started working in agencies in Lebanon. Um. Working with with everything that had to do with graphic design. You know, branding campaigns communications um web design. You know that was 2008 and web design was the biggest thing and and this is where I I saw that that the future and the potential is in pursuing. Digital design. You know product design and all that kind of work I felt this ah this is where we were headed so I started sharpening my skills in that area and and this is how I built um a set of skills that I have been using for the past twelve years of my career

Um, when I was 27 and I and I was I had a good career I was climbing up and and and pretty happy with my life. Ah, there was a little passion of mine. Ah, Peter that I always wanted to pursue which is a love of history. You know I I loved history all my life and I was very interested in that discipline but I was very aware that I could not study history and then make money and and a career from it out of history. You know if we want to be realistic so at 27 I had that.

Set of skills of design that I was able to monetize right? and I had this career and I said you know what? I'm goingnna offer myself the luxury of studying history and this is what I've done so I was in Lebanon. And I applied to I wanted to go to go to Europe and live in Europe for for a while. So I applied to the University Of Geneva in Switzerland for a program a masters program in medieval art history and I got accepted and I and I just you know left everything and and went there to start this program. But at the same time I had to finance all of my life there. So what I did is I mean luckily I found a job with an agency in the United States remotely before remote was was sexy like it is now. Um and I was working with them and and and designing all of these digital products at night. And during the day I used to go to university to pursue this passion of mine and that that's kept going on for about two years and a half and I finished my master's degreeer and I traveled all ah all ah, all over Europe and I visited the cathedrals the museums it was wonderful. It was amazing. Um, and.

Yeah, and and then I yeah finished and I got a scholarship to pursue my ph d in the same field at the same time. Ah my husband had had moved from lebanon to Dubai and he got a job here and we were wondering so what do I do now can I cannot live in Switzerland alone for all of that time. We need to be together. Um, you know so I started trying to find ways of jets setting across continents and and then this is what happened was really jet settings it was being crammed in economy class every every other between Dubai and Switzerland um. To continue with that bath you know and I'm and I'm still working on my ph d and I'm in the final stages of it. Um, in in medieval art history and I'm I'm almost there I hope this year I'm gonna finish it along with my career and you know, um. Experience design which is still going on and and flourishing so I have this duality and in my professional life if you want that I have been maintaining for a very long time and it sort of defines. The the woman I am today so that is a little bit about me and and and my. Journey in the past twelve years

Peter Szczerba - I Love that and from the moment that I heard even ah, kind of a glimpse of your career journey or story I wanted to to dive into it in this sort of conversation because I think it's honestly inspiring to hear. That someone you know while maintaining a drive to develop in their career and advance and be as good as Possible. You know in whatever it is that they found their profession and to still pursue a passion outside of that that is distinct.

And while it may have positive impact. Let's say on your profession in some form which I'd love to dive into during this conversation. It is still distinct and requires a whole focus on and kind of dedication to to make possible and I find that you know incredibly inspiring as someone who has a diverse set of passions personally. That that somebody is doing So um, you know successfully and being able to achieve that sort of duality and so I guess you know I want to ah go all the way back to maybe some sort of the early sources of inspiration for pursuit of some passion like this because I'm very interested By. Kind of what you talked about towards the end of your initial college experience. This idea of um, looking looking and studying these political cartoonists right? that had these opposing kind of approaches or perspectives and how that kind of influenced you and kind of your experimentation that you did with that. Can you. Talk a little bit more about how that may have shaped your approach to design in the future and why it maybe made you unique in terms of the way you approached it.

Hiba Mojabber - Yes, definitely. Ah so there I'll and answer this in 2 parts of firstly um, you know, studying cartoons and simply looking at images. You know when you look at an image. It's different than reading a text so there is it's a different language. It's a different way of seeing things.

And and what they try to teach you at college is to train your eye just to look at images and try and understand what this image mean means be it if you're looking at a cartoon if you're looking at ah a medieval image that was drawn by someone seven hundred years ago what are they trying to say through that image right? So that is really something that. Fascinated me ever since I was a child you know I used to draw and paint and just I love colors and everything that is visual um excites me even though I love the written word as well. But that there's that fascination with the image. But also I have a funny story for you about how my this.

Ah, love of heart his art history started. It started with a bit of drama. Um, so my first ah year in college we had this very basic. Ah you know, general art history course that you had to attend the class was on Monday Eight a m. Right? Very painful to be and was Monday 8 am so you know and everything was me and college is different from school. So I went to this class and and the professor. Um, she used to lock the door after 10 minutes so 8 8 10 like the door is locked if you're late, you're caught out of class. She was very brutal and in that sense so there was always that anxiety of getting to class on time. It was very early. We were sleepy all the time and but it was at the same time very exciting because then you get to it was. You're half awake and she's talking to you about you know the iron age and the egyptians and the pharaohs and you're sort of traveling in time in that haze and that morning so there was something ethereal about it. Um, but ah towards the end during the midterms and the finals she asked us to write um a paper.

About I don't remember which subject now and I've written the paper but I copied most of it. You know from from Wikipedia and stuff like this and encyclopedias because we didn't have Wikipedia at the time. Um I copied and I you know copy pasted stuff because. I mean I was not very accustomed to the to the concept of plagiarism and how that plays against you in college. So I just made this little frankenstein monster of a paper and I submitted it and she was very unhappy. She failed me like it was 0 for plagiarism. Um, and I did not expect that you know it just.

Fresh out of school. What is happening and I went and I bagged her and I said listen um I was I was able to go to that University because my dad was an employee so I wasn't paying tuition fee. Um, and and when you had that privilege you couldn't fail because if you failed this means my dad has to go and pay.

Extra money and we could not afford right? So I went and begged her and I said listen I mean I'm sorry I did this I'll rewrite the paper. Whatever you want and she sat me down. She was very kind. She spoke to me she says listen this is a lesson for you. That nothing comes free in life right? and you need to put in the work and the hours and the discipline and the commitment to deliver something that is that represents you right? and that is excellent and that is worthy of getting recognized recognized right? and and I'll never forget this because I think that was a really good lesson. And I'm happy that this professor failed me right because she taught me a really valuable lesson that has stayed with me on the value of doing something that is excellent and and being committed and not trying to copy paste stuff or or just you know hack your way around some assignment. Um.

So these 2 things my fascination with the image and that little anecdote that I just told you sort of came together awoke in me at the age of 27 and and I had this voice in my head that was saying listen you should go and and dig deeper in that area because I mean I don't know why because like. Something is waiting for you. There. It might not be a career in the traditional sense but it it had ah a huge amount of personal growth Peter like a wealth of experiences and meeting people and discovering things about myself and um. Sometimes you know just sitting in the library alone when it's snowing outside and trying to figure out what the hell am I working on and what is this medieval artist thinking when he drew that image that I'm trying to write a paper about you know and it's still that struggle to this very day. Um, you know ups and downs and ups and downs. So. It's not rosy and it's not like the way we see it in movies. No, it's it's a very real journey and ah and um and a very tiring thing to follow 1 ne's passion and you keep questioning yourself on a daily basis. You know sometimes I ask myself? Why am I doing this I'm so tired I'm I mean. It's it's not traditional, right? and when you try to break away from the traditional you get a lot of doubts and that is part of the journey and that is part of the growth as well.

Peter Szczerba - Of course and I think that that anecdote is is such a powerful 1 for someone to internalize right? that this idea that nothing comes for free and that it takes work and dedication to be able to create something that is wholly yours and representative your thinking and beliefs and kind of. Perspective of the world right? and to warrant recognition for it. I think that's ah, that's a really powerful thing and and the fact that it stayed with you all this time right demonstrates that but it's also very transferable beyond just the world of art or a paper but just in anything that you put into the world right in the form of a deliverable or in the form of a creation or.

Whatever the case might be or even a thought. Um I think that's very powerful I'm curious though because you know as you said I can't more than once now already that it's not an easy path to pursue a passion so deeply right with.

Peter Szczerba - On these levels of academia while also you know having a successful career and flourishing and I guess in the early stages as you were um, you know working from an agency perspective in in graphic design and then also pursuing your education. How did you continue to advance your career and meaning in that. How are you able to continue to hone your craft from a graphic design perspective and advance that and make that better while still being able to Balance. You know the pursuit of your passion at the same time. How are how are you able to do that.

Hiba Mojabber - Um, it's It's a daily struggle but also a daily challenge a positive one because firstly you have to be super organized, right? Very very simple bread and butter. You have to be organized. You have to put things into buckets and say.

This is how much I can do in a day understand your potential understand also the limitations of your potential your capacity your body's needs all of that your mental health so you you have to compartmentalize in a sense of every day I wake up and I'm like okay I have to do this for the ph d and I have this. This number of meetings for my work and I have this assignment and this deck to deliver and I need to go walk take a walk with my husband and I need to and I have some chores etc and then I and I say to myself. This is how much I can do today and that is how much I'm gonna be able to do tomorrow or the day after so there is that kind of disciplined. Organizational thinking that goes into play otherwise you will not be able to do it. But there are days where I'm so overwhelmed by my job and I have 15 meetings and calls and I'm not able to work on my ph d and in these days I say to myself. It's okay.

I'll get to it tomorrow and some days I work all of the weekends and some days I work all night and other days I don't do anything and I just sit on my sofa and I just watch you know Netflix to fry my brain because this is what I need so it's it's a lot of it's a lot of this.

Um, but in the start um you know if if you want to go back to when I started this and I and I had a job to maintain and I had to start this new program in Swizerland um it was tough I was very overwhelmed and I was you know doubting if I was able to do this. But day after day I started learning how to do it and I started. It's it's very difficult. You know that's an interesting question because it's difficult to put my finger on how I've done it because it's it's a day by day thing and after a while and you realize okay so I've done it. You know I've i've.

I still have my career and you know I'm shining here and I'm shining here and I have success on both ends and I managed to do it despite the difficulty of it. So yeah I would say a lot of discipline a lot of organization but also a lot of kindness to yourself I used to be very um. Very difficult on myself peter at times and if if I failed or if one of the um, the 2 lives that I had wasn't working I'd I'd be very critical of myself. But right now and I have learned through the past seven years to be kinder to myself and and just you know, appreciate. I'm doing this and this is making me a better person on all levels and it's okay, if 1 day. Um I submit something that is not super amazing and then I can refine it or if one day I miss a meeting or something like this. It's okay, right? because there's a bigger picture and I'm only human at the end of the day. So.

The point is not to kill myself in the process. The point is to maintain 2 streams that are enriching me because I love my job as well. Peter like I I love being a designer I love what I'm doing right now I'm an associate creative director. So it's a different kind of. Sets that I'm building I really love that as well. I'm not just doing it. Um, for the money or for just security I'm doing it because I love it and it it grows me on so many levels and art history is like my mistress. You know it's like what. What's the male equivalent of mistress. It's it's my you know my my lover that I go to at night and I and I and I spend a night to it. You know so it's like this weird day night. Relationship.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, no I think that's it's such an interesting way to to kind of position it right? because I think the way I'm understanding. You describe it is that it is certainly in order to be able to maintain to such. Such consuming streams at the same time right? It does take a level of commitment and simply diving in Headfirst and and and and fully committing yourself to right because it is difficult it is It is hard. It requires organization. But at the same time.

You know what? I'm understanding is you also have to listen to your body your emotions right? your mind and understand that there are times when you simply have to take that break right? And so yeah, of course.

Hiba Mojabber - Yeah, yeah, sorry can I add something because I just remembered 1 thing. Um, so 1 thing that I used to do is um if now with work from home things are easier for me right? but I remembered something that I used to do that I think um. The the listeners will enjoy so back in 2019 we were going to the office five days a week right and and I live in Dubai but I had some clients in Abu Dhabi which is an hour away from Dubai and I had to go see some of these clients almost on a daily basis right? So not only I had to go to the office.

But I had to commute back and forth to abudhavi which is 2 hours of road and what I used to do during that time is I used to sit in the cab and write my thesis during that long hour. So I use I've read that this is literally how I've written my doctoral thesis I have written chapters and chapters. Um, you know in in that car on the way to abudabi. Um I could have sat there and scrolled eternally on my phone or I could have listened to music. But I chose to do that and sometimes I I was tired and sleepy and I could not do it and I didn't do it but most of the time I've done it and this is how I slowly but surely advanced.

By finding these little pockets of time that you can utilize you know it wasn't like I mean exactly how you do the these podcasts right? You're awake. It's it's 12 a m your time and you're finding pocket to do something that you love and that' is exactly um. how how I've done some of that. So I think this is just interesting I wanted to tell you that. What.

Peter Szczerba - You know I love that I absolutely love that and I think what that is absolutely demonstrative of and I I appreciate the comment around the fact that it is it is in fact, the middle of the night as we're recording right now is that if you do deeply care about you know, a passion of yours that. To make it work. You just have to find the time It's often limiting the limiting factor right? and I love the efficiency of I have 2 hours of dead time in a car. Why don't why don't I use that productively I don't have to do it 100% of the time.

But even if I do it 50% of time I'm still now able to chip away at something very important to me piece by piece in an isolated dedicated time right? And if you do that enough times you build up the behavior. It becomes a release in itself. Um, and so you know in the same way for me with with these podcasts. For example. Editing some of the the audio has very much become this kind of flow State release you zero in you listen you kind of look for imperfections you cut you stitch right.

Um, and that I can only imagine could have become the case and those hours in that car probably melted away with with that productivity. Um, but honestly with with this kind of dedication to an activity you know with it comes compromise right? and I'm curious.

You know I know for myself with some of my other passions outside of you know let's say work in the in the consulting space or or this podcast I do have to compromise things and kind of this statement has resonated with me over the last year this idea of dispassionately prioritizing your passions. There is compromise right? So I'm curious. For you have you found that you've had to compromise things in your life to be able to pursue these 2 parallel paths.

Hiba Mojabber - Absolutely I mean this is this is you're hitting at the heart of the subject right now because one of my core beliefs is you know everything comes at a price if you want something in life. You have to pay for it. Be it, You pay by working hard.

You pay by. You know, removing something that you wanted and replacing it with something else. Um, you know nothing is free if you if you want something you have to um work for it. You have to maybe sacrifice some other things so this is this is how things go and I'm a firm believer that no, we cannot have it all. And all of that pressure put on women that you can have it all family. A career, a passion all of that I mean this to me is nonsense this is extra pressure this breaks people um with a weight of a societal expectation that is simply unachievable. Um to me. Um, when I decided to pursue a medieval art history I had to depriorze a lot of things you know the first thing that took a hit was my my marriage. It's not that my marriage struggled but I was not able to live with my husband the whole time so we were living apart. Um, and that was difficult.

Was difficult for me, you know and even and more so for him because I left and I was doing all these exciting things and he was living in our home alone. You know, missing me because he did not have that you know exciting journey that he was going on to so that was 1 thing that that took a hit um, another thing is. Um, you know I'm a child free woman by choice and I say that proudly and and it's by choice because it was either I had to decide to have a family and a job maybe or a job and something else which was. Art history for me right? because I was very aware that I cannot have all of this without breaking myself physically and emotionally because it's a lot so I had again to deprioritze.

That and and put it on hold and then maybe visit it later if I if I still have the time later on so there's also risk associated with that. Um, so that is that is 1 thing that I had to deprioritize. Um, and I told you the marriage took ah a bit of a hit. Me physically it was difficult Peter because I was flying all these flyings you know, being in an airplane a lot of time. It's it's difficult because you're stuck in this limbo. You're not your in between countries and you don't know what time it is and you're lost and you still have to be fully focused articulate.

Ah, my work in Switzerland it it was in french and then my work in english and then I talked to my family in arabic you know so the linguistic challenges um, physical exhaustion. Um, my social life took a hit because after a day of or after a month of traveling back and forth and dealing with work stuff and. And ph d stuff I did not have this stamina to go and socialize with people you know so I was like a recluse for sometimes I just couldn't you know I wasn't my best self and I didn't want to go and and and just not have fun. You know? So so this is the backstage. Of what it means to to follow something that you love or to commit to something whatever it is that makes you that makes your heart happy and makes your soul happy. So there is a price there is there are sacrifices. There are things you need to come to terms with. And it's okay, right? because no one can have it all and and people who pretend to have it all are are delusional I mean you I mean you you have a family and you know how how how demanding that is right and I can tell you how much a ph d is demanding it ah sucks your brain out of your out of of your skull plus ah plus.

Everything you need to. So yeah, it's it's depriorzing exactly what you said I like what you said deriorzing your passion. Um, it's that and it's having the maturity and the self- confidencefidence to say this is what I need right now and this is what I'm gonna do. Even though you have people telling you you will never make it or this is not the way to do it or just simply observing your peers who are not doing what you're doing and they're following the traditional some more traditional path that has proven its success throughout the years and you're doing something new so you're questioning yourself.

On a daily basis so you have doubts you have you know all of that that you have to deal with and manage plus all the weights of that double life that I was leaning.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, and I think what I love about how you've articulated a lot of this I'm gonna kind of break it into a couple of pieces because the first piece just as you describe what that the backstage experience of these 2 pursuits looks like whether it's through travel whether it's through sacrifice etc. To me that doesn't sound much different than the more generally accepted kind of struggle that people associate with let's say becoming a professional athlete. No one bats an eye at any of the stories that endless athletes tell about I was grinding in the gym or on the field or the pitch for 10 hours a day or you know 2 or 3 a day and. Sacrificed my whole life and dedicated it to this pursuit and and I think that is a much more generally accepted. Um, passion that that many people have followed where they dedicate a large portion if not all of their lives towards it right? And that's very generally widely accepted.

And and is in is a normal thing but in this case I don't see how that's different whether it's an athletic pursuit or in in this case, an academic pursuit ah one that you know you're not necessarily doing it with the kind of professional athlete goal in mind of you know, having fame and riches this is. You know you've articulated even in this conversation. There may be a job at the end of it that allows you to work in your passion space. There might not but the simple acquisition of the knowledge and the process of learning it is enough for you for this passion and it's worth the work and I think it's It's interesting to give people a glimpse into the type of real real hard work and sacrifice. It takes to to achieve that. So I think that's 1 thing I want to just kind of capture because I think it's an important thing to recognize and understand and I don't I don't see how those 2 are different but the other piece. And I'd love for you maybe to expand on it a little bit because I thought that was a really beautiful statement this idea of being childless by choice as a woman and and really bucking that traditional expectation of family right? life and balance and maybe some of the. Kind of aspirations of being able to have it all and and you recognizing that in your circumstance. It was something that was impossible and that you've deprioritzed for the time being it was that a difficult thing to come to terms with how did you? How did you manage that and how did you end up coming to terms with.

Hiba Mojabber - Yeah, so at the beginning it was. It was easy because I was 27 I had time you know so I could I had the luxury of saying you know a child is not for me right now I'm gonna go um backpack um across Europe you know now I'm 35

So now things are getting difficult this is where and I'm completely transparent about this because maybe there are some women out there that need to hear this you know right now I'm saying okay, now you seriously need to consider if you want to remain child free or if at some point you would like a child right? because. Time is sticking and I'm not gonna be young forever and that is something um that I need to think about so at the beginning it was easy now. It's getting a little harder and now there is a bit of anxiety attached to it so when will I finish my ph d what what How old will I be will I still have the chance to have a. Child did I make a mistake by deprioritzing having a family at 27 maybe I did maybe I didn't you know we might never know will I regret this when I'm older will I die alone all of these are anxieties and demons that I wrestle with on a daily basis. So. It's not an easy decision. Um, but it is it is something that is necessary because I believe Peter if I stop pursuing my ph d right now. Um, or I just decide you know I'm going to put everything on hold and and just have a child I don't think I will be happy. Right? because I will be doing it out of fear and out of a ticking clock not out of my own will and desire right? So and I think that's not that's not ah, a good excuse or motivation to have to bring a child into the work because there's a lot of responsibility attached to that.

So and and you know in a way everything that I've gone through and that intellectual sophistication that I have harvested throughout this all these years lead me to that thinking you know they lead me to not jump impulsively on something as important as bringing a child to the word.

And understanding what is coming from anxiety and fear and what is coming from a place of peace and you know yeah, mainly peace of mind and actual desire right? So as long as I am not convinced 100% that um I want a family right now for the right reasons I will not take on that step and I think I need massive closure with the ph d um to be able to have that clarity of mine to say. Okay, maybe I'll have a child next year or or the year after you know so that is the kind of mental journeys that I go. Um, and to on a daily basis and and more recently since I hit my thirty fifth year so so it's not easy and it's very daunting. But I mean I think I'm navigating it well and I want to bring in 1 point actually since we're talking about struggle and sacrifices and all of that. Um, remember Peter the first time we had a ah meeting to record this podcast and I asked you if we can please postpone it. It was actually because I had received um some very massive feedback on my ph d. And I needed to rework a lot of it and I was really down and I was questioning I mean I was thinking to myself. Why am I doing this I could be I mean I have a good life and a comfortable life and I could be just I have my job and I could be sitting the rest of the day you know doing things that I like and just. Traveling the word and enjoying going to the spot. Whatever why am I torturing myself with this It's it's really not worth it. So I was putting all of these choices into question and questioning myself again and and all of that. But what I did is I picked myself up.

You know I took ah I took a break and I said you know I'm not gonna think of the ph d I'm just gonna go and enjoy some family time for Christmas and this is what I've done and I went and I completely disconnected from everything and I came back with clarity of mind saying no this is what I want this is what I started I need to finish it. Because if I don't finish it I'll never forgive myself. You know so I'm gonna finish it I know I can do it so I had to rebeieve in myself if you wish because I lost that belief in my potential at one point. Um, so I brought myself back to what matters to the principals.

Brought me here to my initial motivation and and I gave myself a massive boost of self- confidence and it was not easy at all. But I got there and now I'm working day and night to work on that feedback and and my thesis is getting to a much better place so in a way I'm very grateful. For that drama that happened and that feedback that I have gotten a month ago because right now I'm seeing that wow this is I'm really pushing the boundaries and I'm really perfecting. Um this this work that I've been doing for the 4 years the past four years and in that I'm doing it justice right? So I'm moving gently towards closure towards refinement. And closure and eventually success in that endeavor and that to me right now is very precious and I think if I don't get this I'm gonna be broken and away. So I want to get this and that's my objective and then I'll go back to visiting things that I've put on the backburner like having children. Right? I never wanted the big family so I don't have any expectations of ah you know having 3 children or four children I'm very happy with 1 child if I manage to do that in the upcoming years so that is also that layer of um, you know, just 1 child is fine for me. It just I'm I'm not very greedy. You know and life and yet.

And I don't like read um you know you you know I want to have my ph d my successful creative director work and 4 kids I mean and an and a villa and 4 cards. No, it's just I know I mean little by little piece ah piece by piece I'm gonna be very happy with what I have so that is I mean i. This is a little bit of sound I don't know if it sounds like rambling but this is a little bit of how I would answer that question of being child-fre and and and the sacrifices that I've done and all the struggles that still happen on a daily basis. Um, but all of that feeds into the woman I am and I and it's turning me into. Someone that I really love.

Peter Szczerba - That is such a powerful statement and I think they're not ramblings I think what it is is a very transparent and candid you know glimpse into the the inner workings of decisions that you know an individual that is objectively successful in multiple paths of their career and passion. Um, and that they've made and how they've approached the thinking around all of this and I think that you know even as you described this idea that you receive negative feedback on something you've poured 4 years of your life through you know, a lot of the challenges that you've described and to to have that feedback. You know. I think there's people who maybe spend a couple of hours on a deliverable at work right? and and they receive some negative feedback and they're crippled by that right? like that is they're really challenged by receiving feedback whereas this is something you've poured.

So much hardship into and and and you know all the time you've prioritized in the the effort and the work across 4 years to then have that kind of your world kind of shattered a little bit by something like that I think that's.

Being able to bounce back from that then need to take a step back disconnect and maybe here you did it across a couple of weeks but I think that's very easily transferred into you know a day you work a couple of hours you get negative feedback it hurts in the moment take a step back disconnect for half an hour come back to it. Get that clarity of mind and go back to work and bring it together right? I think that you know is a really this is a really I think big example of something that people can do day in day out when they get pieces of feedback that are hard to kind of take at first. Um you know and.

I Think that that's really powerful and and this idea of loving yourself right and being able to reach that point that's something really important too as people navigate growth in their careers promotions they are aspiring to or changes they make to a new company or a new role or whatever coming back to having inner satisfaction I think. Is a accelerative force for your growth and your impact and your your kind of performance versus pursuing kind of that external satisfaction or or validation of others I think that's a powerful thing. You've outlined too and now I'm Curious. You know as you've articulate everything to me. You know you talked about some of the challenges you had in your marriage and stuff like that that were presented by the distance and the travel. But also the time you've dedicated to this so it you know whether it's this or other examples right? from other people that I've spoken to on this podcast having a partner. You know that is supportive and understanding and. Is able to make compromise with you in your pursuit of a passion or a dream right is a really critical thing talk about the impact that having a really great partner has made on this because I think that that's something that needs to be openly talked about too.

Hiba Mojabber - Yeah, absolutely no absolutely and I'll start the the answer with a code that I've read in the alchemist by Paulo Coello and and there's a sentence that says when you decide to pursue your passion or something that you love the universe conspires to help you.

Get there right? and and that has has spoken to me because I have lived that you know the universe has put on my path. A lot of critics but a lot of people that have helped me more than the critics you know and for that I'm very blessed. So the very first. You know guarding angel in my life is my husband because he's this wonderful understanding man that understands the value of doing something that you love and creating and just you know pursuing that little voice in your head that's telling you at four zero a m you know this is what you love? Why don't you do it right. Um, and and he was the very first person everyone was like you just got married. You're newlyweds you want to leave your husband. You want to go like for what and he was like listen if this is something you love I'm 100% behind you. Um, and and he even worked with me on preparing the the paperwork and printing stuff and making sure everything's ready and when I got accepted and and I booked my plane and it was happening and I was flying on a Sunday on a Saturday night. Um I had a like mini meltdown and I said to my husband I said.

What what am I doing like I'm leaving you and I'm leaving my home and this is not worth it I'm not gonna go I'm I'm just gonna cancel everything you know that moment before something happens and this is where you doubt yourself this is this is what I had back in 2014 and

And and he and you know what he said I'll never forget this. He said you're going Tomorrow. You're getting on that plane and you're you're gonna you're gonna follow that adventure because if you if you leave it Now, You're never gonna forgive yourself. This has happened to you for a reason and you need to pursue it and I'm not gonna I'm gonna just. I'm not gonna let you do that I'm gonna go and put you myself on that plane so you would go and and and that gave me the strength that I needed that. Okay, you know I have this this wonderful man who's supporting me who understands this and I know that this came at a lot of. At at a big price for him at his tea price because he was left Alone. You know and we were We were married for one year at at that time. So um, that is really one of the blessings in my life and to this day and it's a constant thing with us right?

You're not going to waste all your efforts. Um, you know I'm I'm behind you. Let's go for a walk and we go for a walk and we talk for 2 hours and I feel better right? And and this has been a constant reassurance in my life having him and having his support that has been I mean I could have. It would have been much more difficult if he wasn't there I'm not going to say I wouldn't have done it I maybe have done it but it wouldn't have been the same without him and without his support and there's another nice part to it is that I what I've done sort of inspired him in a way.

Because he's he's as well. A professional in the and the digital word. Um and and digital business but he had he had a passion of woodworking all his life. He loved working with wood but he never had the guts to pursue it right.

And two years ago he came to me and he said listen I want to build a shop in our house and I want to you know work with wood because I see how what you've done with medieval artistry and it inspires me and it has given me the strength to say you know I want to pursue this even if I fail I want to do this for myself. And he started working in woods and now he does these amazing cheeseboards that make him so happy and most most of the time you know on weekends I'm having to work on my ph d right now because of this feedback and he's in his shop you know building stuff so we have this nice little. Equilibrium in our house where we're both nurturing our passion and then afterwards we get together and we have lunch or we have dinner together and it's so amazing. You know so we have found that ah conjugal balance through pursuing one's passion and doing what you love unapologetically ah and and.

And this has been Amazing. You know so it it all works out in a really nice way. Really the universe conspires to help you by putting people in your path that help you by giving you the strength in and the dark times by inspiring you in so many ways you just have to be willing and open to say. This is what I like this is what I'm gonna do and I know there's a price to pay I'm gonna put in the hours I'm gonna put in the discipline and you'll eventually get there.

Peter Szczerba - I Think that's awesome to hear and and it's this idea of mutually finding that equilibrium and both being able to pursue passions is is such a great thing to to hear and something that I aspire to achieve it in my own relationship with my wife and. I Think it's awesome to hear that it's done at such a you know in such an extreme way in this circumstance pursuing such intense passions. Um, but I want to I guess I'm curious also to to learn a little bit more about you know.

The professional environment that helps make this possible in terms of your your creative director career right? and so obviously you need to be able to find the flexibility in in your career right? and create an environment or secured environment there that.

To your point or though I think you use the word nurtures your ability to pursue this this passion. So how were you able to achieve that because i'm'm of the I'm of the mindset that if you don't ask you don't get and I think a lot of people if they even Dreamt of this idea of you know pursuing a passion like a Ph D or something like that totally disconnected from their career.

They'd probably discount it immediately just because like well I need my job and my job won't allow for this but it's one of those things. Well if you don't ask your workplace if it's possible. How will you ever know right? I'm curious how you approach that and how did you make your work environment and situation fit your pursuit of this passion.

Hiba Mojabber - Yeah, it's absolutely that Peter it's when I started my page d and I got a job offer from to bec sapient I just was very clear and I said look I have this I need to travel to Switzerland very often. Um. What can you do? I mean if I there needs to be flexibility if I take that job and it was a very honest and open conversation. Um, and I was lucky enough to work with an organization that offered me that flexibility you know so I was um, most of the times I was working three days a week rather than five days as a contractor so there was that little ah phase where I was you know I could travel and I could take some time off and then come back and continue my work so that was the kind of flexibility that I was offered because I asked for it. You know and in return I was giving it 110 percent so I was

In three days I was doing the work of five days not to let down my you know my my superiors my colleagues my clients et etc. So I I was given that kind of flexibility which I consider the privilege and I use that to the best of my abilities. Um. And the remaining time I used it to pursue my ph d right? like that time when I was writing in the cap that was a whole summer so I was um, working with ah the bit of flexibility that I was offered and I was using the pockets of time to um to cup it to optimize the time that I have to fulfill the ph d.

And and even now ah now I'm I'm working full time as an as ah as an associate creative director. So I mean after doing it for a while after leading that double life for a while you kind of master it. So right now I kind of mastered it and also I plan my day and I have all my meetings and I have everything that I need to do and I and I do it and then I look at the pockets of time and I fill them with with Phd work and then I find another pocket and I fill it with a nice walk or a nice dinner just for my sanity and for my quality time with my husband. So um, it's right now. The career is a big priority so I cannot.

Abandon my work or I cannot take a step back So that is priority for me and finishing the Ph D is another priority. Um, so this is how I do it I Just assessed what I have and I start with the most pressing things and then I find a pocket of time and I fill it with Ph D work or vice versa. And and this is how I achieved this and it has been working pretty nicely for me and I learned to delegate you have to learn to delegate right? You cannot be a Micromanager. You cannot be into the details you have to trust people and you have to help people with you in your team. Nurture them and give them the self-confidence to do the work. Um, and be there for them right? as a creative lead. You don't have to micromanage everything so that is also something that I learn right? Let's go delegate Trust people um work kindly and and comprehensively with your team.

And and everyone will be happy right? because you have your junior designers that are learning. You have some support from your peers when I'm overwhelmed I go to other creative directors in my team and I say guys I'm overwhelmed can someone help me and there's no shame in that and that also as a learning to say I'm overwhelmed.

Ah, because there's a there's a stigma attached to that if you say oh I cannot handle this. You're you're afraid people would think you're incompetent but not not at all and it every time I said guys I'm overwhelmed and I need help I got the help that I needed and this has made me a better person so you know these are the little nuggets of gold that I picked along way.

Learnings and growth that people will surprise you if you trust them if you be kind to people and just talk talk to communicate comprehensively and directly what what you need and what what you miss or whatever things happen in a magical way.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, it's going back to the idea of the universe conspiring to help you which I absolutely love as a quote and I'm I'm taking that and gonna use it going forward I think ah the other part that I really appreciate about what you articulated here. Is you know you you stated that.

You know by being afforded the flexibility to be able to pursue your passion and and kind of figure out a ah, a working arrangement that satisfied your needs but ah like still put you in a position to deliver what was expected of you. You said you worked 110 Percent and often delivered five days worth of work in those three days it's just a great example of when an employer or a leader or an organizational culture ah creates that ability for an individual to pursue their passions in and outside of work.

Um, and offer flexibility and serve as an enabler and a catalyst for that pursuit rather than an inhibitor or an obstacle it translates to that to you know to to harder work to more dedication to the to the role to the delivery. Because there's that mutual exchange of value and trust and and I think that that's a really important thing for anyone that might be listening that is in a leadership position to kind of take note of that This is a great example of of exactly how that's sort of creating that sort of environment and and kind of level of Flexibility. Can be an accelerative force to to the value that your employees and your team members could bring to the table for your organization and your clients versus actually being an inhibitor right? and I think that's a really important thing to to take note of and you know I think for me personally just I find your story.

So inspiring as an individual who has a lot of passions and often you know finds himself just without without the time to pursue all of them. The fact that you're able to do so um, with such vigor and such enthusiasm and overcoming so much challenge to do so. You know I find it expiring inspiring and I Honestly can't wait to you know, hopefully reconnect at some point in the future when you're on the flip side of this Ph D you're further in your graphic design career. Maybe you're you're stumbling on the next step and maybe pursuing even a career medieval art history I would love to hear about it and I.

You know I appreciate your time today and and you sharing your story. It's an an incredible one.

Hiba Mojabber - Thank you Peter it's been it's been wonderful thank you for giving me the platform to to tell my story and and share it. So thank you so much. It's been amazing.