OYP Episode 56: Joanna McFarlane

Joanna McFarlane, Associate Partner and Vice President of Media and Analytics at King Ursa, talks about the evolution of careers in the data field and the importance of having an organization that embraces data, the value of continuing to lean into delivery on key projects to keep skills sharp as you ascend to leadership, and the mindset shift required when transitioning from shaping a team to shaping an organization.

Interview

Peter Szczerba - Welcome back to the own your potential podcast where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe about how they've taken control of their career growth and lessons on how you can too. I'm Peter Szczerba and today I'm very excited to be sitting down with Joanna McFarlane, Associate Partner and Vice President of Media and Analytics at King Ursa.

Joanna, excited to have you on the podcast today. Been looking forward to this, been a long time coming. Let's just jump right into it. Can you take us through your career journey leading up to until this point?

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah, absolutely so first thanks for having me. Um, yeah I'd love to give you a bit of a background so I have always been interested in marketing I would say from the time that ah from the time that I was in university and starting to think about. What I wanted to do post-university I had friends and family that were working in the industry and so my passion was always I was geared there. Um, however I at the time in University I was very much focused on you know I was both a major in political sciences.

And then I was also very interested in some of the stem some some stem the courses. So I was doing quite a bit of work in computer sciences and so on. So anyways, I had this you know passion that was guiding me towards media or sorry towards marketing. Um and then at the same time. Had these other skill sets that weren't quite developed in the space yet. So I actually started in in third year university I worked for a company called the hive which is a toronto-based agency and started interning with them and that really for me solidified. That interest in moving not just into marketing but into advertising more specifically I took a bit of time after university took about 2 years off and traveled the world did the you know southeast asia loop australia new zealand yeah, it was quite. You know I knew for me.

I Would really dive into my career I knew that I really wanted to submerge myself. But I also wanted those experiences that I knew would be pretty critical in sort of developing my my mindset and my approach and so on so that time was quite valuable for me. Um, when I immediately following her. Following traveling I did go go right back to the hive and I was working on a product at the time called Wireless Box office. So. It's so funny now this is gonna date me a little bit but this was when Rogers product where you could actually start getting your your concert tickets on your phone So This was.

You know at the time this was was a big deal. Um, and what was so interesting for me was that was a digital product right? and but our focus wasn't really on digital optimizations. So this really for me was that starting point at this point I'd had being interested in some of the tech.

Pieces I'd been really interested in human behavior and then there was this other piece of feeling like there was this gap between better understanding and being able to use digital and tech to help us better understand consumer behavior and that 1 other component played a big factor which was at the time a.

Close friend of mine was starting a company that was a company called rate hub which I'm sure many probably have heard of if you've been in the market for mortgages in particular and anyways they were doing a ton of you know because they were a startup they had this really nimble nimble approach but also really.

Measurable approach being in a startup so you know I was working alongside or working not with her but you know really following what she was doing in her career path and wondering that there was this opportunity to bring that into advertising so that honestly all of those pieces fusing together. Um, had me. You know, working with the hive on bringing in and again it's so interesting at the time like actually starting to champion bringing in what was you know digital measurement at the time and there was certainly appetite and interest. But I ended up at that point. Making making a career move to grip limited where I was working on a pure digital product at the time and then from there you know that progressed to starting the analytics department at grip which was.

Ah, you know, such an amazing amazing experience getting to work with companies like Honda acura expedia young brands that you know and at this time digital was really starting digital moved to you know it went sorry.

Probably web analytics to digital analytics to data analytics to big data within my time at grip. Um, and yeah, again, like feel really fortunate to have had that experience and was able to build out that team which was such an amazing opportunity.

And then I was there for nearly 10 years which is when I met you and and yeah, then about 3 years ago and I guess just some of the challenges again. Amazing opportunity. Amazing leadership, amazing visionaries of the company. It was.

I did find there were challenges on having the analytics as rooted into the organization as I felt there was an opportunity. Um, and that really then became the catalyst for a jump off to work for 1 of actually a previous grip employee who started a company kang ersa.

Um, so this was Eric Vera who was is 1 of the founders of King Ursa um, and that was really the jump off to having data as really, you know the underpinning of a lot of the work that we're doing here so that that really has been the you know 10000 foot view Of. Of my of my career path.

Peter Szczerba - I love that and I think that there's this really nice natural progression and evolution kind of of your role and into leadership which I definitely want to dive into but something that actually strangely enough you know 50 something episodes into this podcast that hasn't come up. It's the topic of internships and so.

Even as you know I look at some of the places you intern like rogers wireless I also did internships during my time in University I went to the university of waterloo they have you know over 80 percent of their their programs are co-op and so I was every four months going into a role in in large companies like like you did and for me.

That was transformative right? and it actually flips like the value equation of academia for me because up until that point you know I did good in school but I was not ah a great academic because I was like okay this is a means to an end to get a good job and then from there I'm gonna lean in the same way, you knew that you're just gonna dive into your career and. I Knew that that would be the case as soon as I had those co-ops because I'm like I'm working harder now than I have ever worked in anything to do with school. Did you find that having those experiences really prepared you to to kind of hit the ground running the moment moment you were out of school and as you looked at peers. Maybe that didn't have intern experiences.

Did it set you apart?

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah,, that's interesting I don't know that I've ever thought about it the way that you know the way that clearly you have I you know in hindsight now I suppose it. It made me really excited I would say it was less maybe less preparation I think you know I'm I'm a. And pretty Rigid I was always you know, quite quite I suppose an academic feels like I'm giving myself too much credit there but you know I always I Always really enjoyed structure and so University like I thrived in that environment I you know even went to it.

Boarding school and high school. So I think that all contributed to that structure. So I felt I felt prepared to to um, get into the workforce. But yeah I would say it was it was maybe more of an excitement about it about you know the the application of a lot of what I was learning. Um.

So yeah I would say that was really it was It was really just motivating for me to it made me excited for what was going to come.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, absolutely and then so you jump into the workforce right? You're doing work with with digital products with these large brands and then you know the world of data starts to evolve to your point. Our careers kind of overlap in timelines in that when we started in data look very very different.

Than it does today right? and I think that's been a really exciting part of the the kind of the story arc over the last decade or so but 1 thing that you know on a lot of the teams that I've been on. Yeah let's say a team has 30 individuals on it. There might be 1 or 2 women on that team. That's obviously changed over the last decade but for yourself as as an experience being o who's you know, ascended to leadership roles in in a kind of a stem space. What does that look like as as ah, you know as for your experience evolving in this space. That is largely male dominated. Historically.

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah, it. It definitely has been largely. Male dominated. Um, so I think that there's no question around that it is so great to see that flipping. Um, but really like I haven't seen throughout the majority of my career. It primarily has been a. Ah, male- dominated space which I think has really done the the industry or done the practice. Ah a disservice to be honest I think there's you know as much as there is a lot of subjectivity that's brought into analysis and I think you're bringing in your experiences and to just to not have.

Have had as much of a woman's perspective or again that equal balance. That's what we're looking for so to not have had that I think has done the industry. You know it's It's not a disservice is maybe the wrong word, but it's nice to see now that that is changing and yeah I think that's. You know I Love seeing on my team now having more women on the team and and just seeing the space becoming more equal in that sense.

Peter Szczerba - Absolutely and I think you talked a little bit about as kind of over the time of working at grip I think you said something interesting that that I also have noticed a change over the years for clients that I've worked with for my own organization at pusis sapient but you talked about the fact that data. Was not core to the organization. It wasn't woven into like the fabric of how they approached digital right? and the types of work that they were trying to do with clients and that you know that and lacking in the environment makes a big difference and I've seen that change inside my organization which is.

You know, largely why I'm still there after nearly a decade but for yourself as you're feeling that happen in your environment right? I've talked with a number of people who talk about the fact that if you can't change the environment you're in while you're there then you simply need to go to a different environment.

And so talk about like how that started to become apparent as you kind of grew in your role and what were some of the things that rose that flag for you that like something's off I think there's more potential to be tapped.

Here in in having data more woven into the organization that I'm working for.

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah I I mean I feel it's such a privilege you know data is such a privilege especially in our space where our role is to understand consumers and to ensure that we're communicating with them effectively. So data really just.

Is a way that we can do that better. Um, and in a way that is not just not only client serving but also to make sure that it's resonating with consumers and it's you know in some instances like near realtime feedback. Um, so and I also think another component is you know it isn't just digital data by any means right? like it's. Dating general Quant Qual attitudinal behavioral like there's just you know a myriad of ways that we can use data so candidly like I just can't imagine being in an organization that wouldn't use that you know I think it's sort of questions makes you question.

What they are using I think bringing it to life can be challenging bringing operationalizing. It is the challenge but I feel quite fortunate that yeah I've been within organizations that have always wanted to embrace it I think where the challenge became was operationalizing. It. Um, and then for me personally in my career you know I I had spent 10 years on working on operationalizing it and again seen really great success internally and externally with clients. Um, but felt that I could achieve you know when it was truly rooted into the dna of the agency and.

You know that's also a byproduct of of the fact that we you know our 7 7 year old agency. We haven't we don't have as much legacy you know obstacles to overcome so that was for me part of the decision to um to move and and to make sure that it was more easily operationalized.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, it absolutely does and so as you're making that jump right when when we met a number of years back I remember kind of in the moment part of the description around what you were looking for. You were looking for.

You know, having a deeper involvement in the direction of the organization and kind of ah looking almost for a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit where you were tied to to the success of the organization and in kind of more than 1 way, but both through incentive but also through the impact that your performance would drive directly right. And that was an attractive thing for you that you were looking for so talk a little bit about that as you were evaluating that jump for reasons over and above just kind of how data was rooted into it. But for the opportunities it allowed for you from an impact perspective and you know. What were the decision factors going into that because you were there at your previous organization like you said for nearly a decade. That's a long time you had success there right? So walking away from something like that. You know a lot of people struggle with making a jump like that. But there's obviously award reward on the table when you do it high risk high reward type of situation. So.

Walk walk through that decision making framework and what went into it.

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah, um I mean it's maybe a bit of a you know you want to practice what you preach you want to I believed that I was going to be able to achieve more um by having more control and having more. Influence at an executive level. So I think that um I was extremely motivated by that on you know without some of the barriers. Um, that were in front of me that again at the time grip. Also Becameys now dense 1 so there was also ah a merger. Um, that was happening so there were going to be. You know there was going to be further challenges to operationalize so I was extremely motivated by being able to you know create the data-driven organization that that you know I felt could be achieved without. Um, some of the some of the barriers and that was really you know I was willing at the time to take a risk which was you know to be specific. It was I was fine to have a compensation decrease with a reward based on how much growth we achieved and that was extremely motivating for me as Well. On.

You know if I really believed in what in what I was doing and how I could bring it to life and the role that data could play I was willing to take that risk and I found that risk really exciting. So yeah, this.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah I mean but there's there's ah, there's it's It's always great when within and ah, an organization more traditional organization like an agency or firm or any type of corporate place where you can find the opportunity to flex that entrepreneurial Spirit. So Obviously that's what you were chasing so where does that come from right Because. You work previously in a more traditional environment and so is that stem from kind of your experience with your friend who is starting up write hub you mentioned that you were kind of following her path and and looking to achieve similar things. Did it come from other influences because I think that's got to formulate somehow.

Joanna McFarlane - Oh. Yeah, yeah, so it it definitely came from a number of of factors you know I I grew up my family has ah a timber frame company called northmerica and so I'd seen my my dad and and my family build out. This really amazing business and just you know I was always just so I just admired him so much for what he had what he built and the risk that he took and you know I can remember him saying like you're going to be the last 1 you're the last 1 to get paid. You know in his role talking about when he was starting his company early days.

Joanna McFarlane - Um, and I just really had a ton of respect for what he what he built so that certainly had an impact and then you know you mentioned just other I feel really fortunate to have had a number of other friends that we're building that were entrepreneurial and you can't help but that. You know that vibe is contagious so having it from from come from my you know my my family company where that was just you know from our part of our dna that sort of work hard mentality and being able to you know wreap the fruits of your labor if you will and and then having seeing.

Kind of the new age. My friends having going through similar experiences. Yeah I think and I was indirectly building I was entrepreneurial and building out a data infrastructure because you know as as you said, even just a few moments ago. It's the space is.

Ever changing like it is insane to think of what when we started. You know what was like I said it was web analytics and avannash koshik who is still amazing. But again his web analytics 1 point zero 2 point zero which again like now you're kind of it was still a great read. Still a great read.

But again, how far it's come so we were you know I was entrepreneurial just didn't have as much I was entrepreneurial and in being able to to be a visionary of where we should go but didn't have the same autonomy that I now have in King ersa.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, absolutely and and speaking to that autonomy I Want to tap into another comment that you said this idea of being able to build your vision for what a data team looks like right? so previously. You came up within the parameters of the the data team that was. In place right now I'm sure that as you evolved in your role and became more senior like you started to have some of that influence but then to build it from scratch and have a but you know, clean, slate allowing for your blue sky vision for what that looks like within the context of where data is at the time and is now. Talk about what approach you take with how you structure that team and also some of the mentality shift that has to come From. You know my performance as an individual and and my impact on our clients to my performance as a leader shaping a culture and and opportunities for a team of people.

Because I think that's a bit of a transition and and I think that for you as you made the jump to King Ursa that transition or I guess the focus on building a team from scratch that became a lot more real than it maybe was previously right? And so. How did you approach that How did you manage that shift in mentality when you were building that team.

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah, that's the the biggest So the biggest difference and therefore shift in mentality for me was at at grip. It was building the team where at King Ursa it was building the organization with that with with that team kind of as a you know key.

Key pillar. Um, and I think that was for me the major the major shift and and candidly it's funny to think back now I would have I should have led differently when I was at Grip knowing now what I do um and I think that you know that shift over into focusing on building out the organization and having. The the importance of everyone growing and learning and understanding data versus just a select group like that to me, you cannot have a data-driven organization if it just if it if it is solely reliant on just the data team I think that that is the biggest step change.

And leadership and leadership change as well and of course you know there's of course being able to look at your team and make sure you're rounding out their skill sets as well I think that's 1 1 thing that I really try and avoid is is creating Silos I think that's the easiest thing to do is say.

You are more of a data scientist. So therefore this is going to be the space that you're going to live in and of course we should some certain people will lend themselves to certain specialties but understanding the entire ecosystem is critical. Um I think otherwise this is where we're you know sayings like. Analysis Paralysis come up right? You end up losing context so having making sure that not only your team is rounded but your organization understands what you're doing and how it applies to their day to day that is the for sure. The biggest step change.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah I Love how you how you speak to that in terms of having that team be well-rounded and understanding the different areas of data that that you can play in so you know within my own organization. The building blocks for us are very much. You know you have your data engineering which is. Ah, your platform specialists your your pure engineers who are kind of like the plumbers and connect the data then you have your traditional data analysts or data analytics which is all your optimization analysis etc. Then you have pure like data science like you mentioned and the way that those kind of complement each other you have people who could span.

Couple of the areas people who could be generalist at a high level across all 3 people who've worked very deep in each and so it's fun to to look at how teams get constructed not even macro like as a whole let's say in North america but let's say even for a client project where we're trying to solve a problem. And then seeing the building blocks of that team with like data strategy sitting across the top as that strategic layer to shape the opportunity or the roadmap for whatever we're trying to achieve that is always exciting now and I think what I'm doing on a slightly smaller scale. When for example, we sell a piece of work and it's like okay, what is this team look like.

I get to craft what that team looks like for the solution of that problem for that client in that industry and so I can only imagine the level of excitement that 1 could get when you're passionate about your vision for data or any you know capability for that matter whether it's technology a user experience.

Product management right? when you have a vision for how to solve a problem being able to build that team. That's a pretty satisfying thing and and so you know. Being able to do that for an organization and you know the staying power that that can enable and what that organization could look like X number of years from now I think that that that would be an enormously satisfying thing and I think just building on that idea of kind of satisfaction I Want to touch on data in particular because. As I've had other data professionals on on this podcast before it's a unique field where it lets you flex like different parts of your brain I think a lot of people think data think like hardcore you know data scientist type that's kind of what they default to that's there's a very much an art to this right.

There's an art to the analysis to the generation of insights to stitching that with big picture business impact and and and kind of big picture thinking talk a little bit about that and your approach to that kind of melding of the 2 sides of the brain.

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah I think well you've nailed it. That's it. Yeah I really think in in our space in particular in in advertising and being focused on consumers and consumer behavior if you you really? it is a left brain right? Brain exercise and I think that's. You know that to me is even just going back to what I was saying on my my career trajectory and and starting with that poly size sort of interest in in university you know, understanding. Both components is critical like the the way my team and I think most any really data team is going to start with. Those key questions right? and I think this comes back to like then looking at what what is the right analytical solution to answer those questions and it isn't always going to be quant a spec. You know there's there are times when that isn't the Solve. So I I really do think that's.

You know that's really the why I think not only for me why being in advertising was where I landed because there is this amazing marriage between data and then Consumer behavior and insight which always isn't always available in especially the data set that you might have available. That's a huge I know I think and.

And so like there you know we we say we're data rich but I think a lot of people and a lot of brands and are data poor right? So I think that's a lot of our role is also in creating data so that we can help solve some of those business problems. But now I think to me it's It's the fun of the space. Um, we really need to think about what's happening within our consumers lives really like what is what's happening in the Category. What's happening for them on different ways that they're connecting and again data is the part that can help us quantify that helps uncover some of that. But. Really the fun for me and I I know like I speak for my team because it were a highly passionate group but is really thinking about both sides. Um.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, no, definitely and so you know part of the fun of all this and having experienced evolution of the of the space over the last decade you know makes me want to circle back to something you talk about ah like web analytics 1 point Zero web analytics 2 point zero way back in the day so when i.

You know the way I kind of started my career with with pu su sapien sapient nitro at the time is I interviewed on campus they did their kind of campus tour in Ontario here going to all the different top universities and ah. Then from there went to kind of like an interview kind of gauntlet day on in on premises at at sapient at the time and so then ah. After I got the job. It was still like 8 months before I was asking them to start it because as was in the in the fall of my fourth year and I had this long way to go before I was actually in the start work and I remember going in like in the early winter. So still five six months out and I asked kind of 1 of the leaders at the time like. What can I be doing to to prepare and they're like well you can read web analytics 2 point zero I think they just kind of you know, go ahead and you know grab that book. It's great. Kind of like go through it and there was another book I forget now what that they recommended as well and I remember that day like.

On the way home. You know before you could like 1 click amazon buy right? like went to like chapters and bought these books and and and I read them cover to cover before starting.

No, it's hundreds of pages of of diagrams of like navigating a tool I didn't have access to right and leveraging it to do stuff with data I've never seen before because it's not an easy concept to kind of like wrap your head around abstractly right.

Because I don't think that up until that point unless you're in the space of digital that you're even thinking about visits or sessions or variables or you know Evar's dimensions. None of this stuff. None of the stuff has any tangible meaning right? and so as I'm reading this stuff I'm I'm struggling to wrap my head around it. You start watching videos things like that. But I come in and and.

And then I just remember the actual difference it made because they asked well like okay well you know we're excited to have you when I join like 5 six months later we'll we'll get walk you through all this kind of like training stuff and they showed me some of these 1 on 1 thing 1 on 1 decks that they had prepared I was like guys I read the books you gave me. You know, goes away further than this. They're like you read the books I'm like yeah that exactly exactly it's like I'm like it's on all of your desks. What do you mean? I'm like no no I read the books and they're like yeah okay and so I remember 1 of the leaders specifically every day for the first couple of months that I was there.

Joanna McFarlane - Ah, you actually read it that like none of us here actually read it. But.

Peter Szczerba - Would walk up to my desk you'd he. He'd stop. Whatever I was doing and then he would ask me a question and he's been 1 of my biggest mentors since name's a j dual and he would ah he'd ask me a question and he'd he'd be like in in like 10 words or less to find the difference between an evar and a prop. And for anyone in the data world in a web analytics world knows what those words mean and and if I even stumbled for a second or like went 1 word over. He'd be like ant wrong and he'd like I don't know knock over a pen or something like that and he was just walk away because I I made this claim that I read this book right.

And then for him that was this kind of like cheeky way of like testing but I was also growing in this space and it's just funny going from that to the ambiguity and the change now that we look at with like Cloud platforms with.

Ah, you know, cdpss and like the ever-changing space of that and how all of these different like you know I remember building an sdr in the Earth go ahead.

Joanna McFarlane - Um, well even you or no, even even to that I mean the cop how much it's changed on now the conversations around third party cookies right? like that has a I remember I remember reading about that years ago the you know, starting the the movement to there the shift rather around.

Greater Privacy more generally and that was for anyone in the space you're thinking Oh my God like what is this going to what is this going to mean for us. So yeah I hear you entirely on on that.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, and like the the just the innovation that's possible right now it's un it's unreal. But I mean the reason I wanted to get to this point is now you know it's it's.. It's interesting to think that when we were in our early stages of our careers. How much simpler This data world was but now for you For example, leading a data organization at its most complex point and it's only gonna get more complex from here had. How do you manage that? How do you navigate this ambiguity. The evolution the constant change right? while instilling confidence both in your organization your client but your team too. They look to you to you know steer the ship right? and I think I'd love to hear a little bit about your mentality and approach towards that.

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah, yeah, yeah I think there's there's 2 things that come to mind right away for me. There is 1 the reliance on having an amazing tech partner so we have. You know will say here often you know media needs math and data needs tech and I Just love that I'm like that is it's just so True. Um, and but but going back to like the role of tech in data is obviously dramatically different than what it was years ago.

So I think that to me has you know I'm I'm lucky to have ah a colleague here Dylan dempsey that I worked with years ago that will say we're sort of the 1 2 punch as it relates to data martech and and whatnot and so I would say that's been a huge 1 is. You know there's there's really having that leadership on that side has been massive and they've that you know tech has also evolve like has evolved you know the same same pace really which is insane. So I think having that skill set. There has been huge because there's.

There's so much from it for an analyst that you need to be focusing on and I think those worlds can get blurred a bit between data and tech and you know I can see with some depending on where a client's analytics. Maturity is they might look to their analyst to do a function that's actually a tech function and that sometimes happens in organizations if they don't have I think.

You know, ah an analyst with python can do a lot that you might expect out of a you know a tech partner but they're not the right person to be doing that. So I think that's being 1 is having just making sure that you have the right thought leadership in that space to you know in this.

Kind of comes back to the point that I was saying earlier on it needs to be an organization that embraces it right? So tech is embracing data in a way that is different than what was 10 years ago so that's 1 is making sure that you have those skillsets that are there to support that are a different function. Um, and then you know number number 2 for me which is really just taking a keen interest in staying on top of it like everything is changing so quickly you really need to set yourself and your teams up to stay on top of changes and again my head now is going is is more so in that going back to that. Third party conversation where there's a lot of clients now that haven't had their partners help them along that transition right? and then and that come the ios 5 or 14 point five update were just totally flatlined on some of their attribution and so I think having what what is really important is.

And what has been important for years is part of the role as an analyst needs to be staying on top of massive massive industry changes when they're happening and getting in front of it because I think that you know yeah, that's just really going to differentiate I think a lot of a lot of agencies right now is that.

That thought lead leadership that organizational adoption and then yeah of course having like I said like that the right tech partner to help you along that I think if these conversations resided just with an analytics team. It would be pretty yeah I can't imagine them being set up. Well for success.

Peter Szczerba - Ah, hundred percent and you know I think 1 thing that you touched on is where kind of wanted to take this a little bit next because you talk about staying ahead of of changes in the organization right? Obviously having to be on the bleeding edge and there's things you have to do to to do that both as a leader as an analyst but then also.

As you kind of ascend in your role.. There's this interesting transition that I'm sure a lot of people that are listening to the podcast start to experience where at 1 point you're all delivery right? You're in these tools in these platforms all day and all night type of thing hands on Keys. But then as your role changes you start to kind of get separated from some of that delivery then all of a sudden you reach a certain level. It could go months without you being inside of 1 of these tools and so how did you manage that transition because I think there's a lot of people myself included as I was going through that and you kind of. Get into more leadership position. It. It can be unnerving right? Where like every time you try to put hands on Keys It's like you're getting back on the bike right? and trying to figure out how to ride again. But at the same time you know, Ah, there's.

Different people I would imagine have different approaches to maintaining that level of subject matter expertise where you still walk into any kind of conversation with extreme confidence of somebody who's been hands-on keys for like the last six months straight right.

Joanna McFarlane - Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that is a great question. Um, because it is 1 of the 1 of the pieces that you.

Peter Szczerba - So what was your been your approach to navigating that transition and staying in top of those things like you know, tactically like how how do you manage that.

Joanna McFarlane - You know when you're not in in platform it does make you feel like you're you know, especially with the changes and all the platforms you can lose relevance in it quite quickly I would say I really have focused on on trying to um you know be involved on certain key.

Projects I'm also extremely passionate about it. So like that is an important part that just for me to be you know for me to continue just not only knowing the space but just that passion for the space like I do love to be hands to keyboard at at times.

Um, and my team is amazing on knowing that's just that's an important part of what I need and I'm vocal about that as Well. So Any new changes. They're very good at making sure I'm up to speed on you know, a quick knock on the door saying like you're going to love this or check this out. That's you know and I think they're That's how they know I. Um, you know I'd like to manage them in that way and they know how to manage up in that way as well. Um, because yeah I do I think it is important in in any sort of technical space like it does become really difficult if you get too too far removed and I think for some they maybe can.

You know to say handle. It isn't the right way handle I was going to say handle it better. But for for me I Just I know I still need to be uncertain key pieces I still need to be involved I Still love it. But if.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, absolutely I think the love piece of it is obviously so important because but otherwise I think if you lose that or if it was never there in the first place it's difficult to to work as hard and stay as connected and and close to kind of how this space is evolving or any space for that matter right.

Any area of technology as quickly as it does evolve. But I think that's I think the culture that you just described there that you've built for your team is such a powerful 1 This idea that everybody gets excited when they learn something new or find out some new development and they run you know. To to to their leader or vice versa leader runs to them and says hey this is this is crazy. Check this out right? like that sort of back and forth that sort of excitement to garner that and foster that that makes the difference for a team. Yeah.

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah. And yeah, and we and you know there's there's things that need to be put in place to to better facilitate it right? It's 1 thing to say oh we need to make sure that we're sharing these learnings and then everyone just gets busy and and it won't actually come into practice. So Of course you know there's things we can do to ensure. Those are actually coming through so for us Agency-wide. We have what's called our bare necessities which is our agency-w wide learning where my team is quite active just knowing we have a bit of a heavy lift to continue to educate all you know all employees especially as there is you know new people Joining. So That's a huge 1 that we'll make sure that we're contributing to that on you know, there's also we have ah ah the pulse newsletter which is an agency wise newsletter where we contribute to that So you know making there are certain checks that you can put in place that can ensure that can better facilitate making sure those things happen.

Peter Szczerba - It right? I think that makes a ton of sense and I think you know the proof is in the pudding because obviously over the last year you received a bit of a validation in the form of a pretty pretty great award the cma and veronics data-driven marketing award right? so. That has to be huge from a confidence building standpoint as you make this transition into this leadership role. You have the opportunity to build a team and a data organization and bring to life your vision for what that should be and then to have that vision validated in that way that's got to be huge for how you kind of. Continue to steership and and and March forwards how does that how did that make you feel and how has that affected your team. Yeah.

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah, yeah, that has been that was amazing. I mean we we're a young team so having had that industry sort of accreditation relatively early on that has been amazing for the team and and the team's confidence too I think they're. Um, you know we're not an organization that like is exclusively focused on awards What I do like about it is it makes the team stretch right? It makes them really set their eyes on something that they might not otherwise so I think from that perspective with this award in particular.

Um, having pen and paper. We had the goal of making sure that we had that we saw that you know accreditation that confidence like that that award that gave us sort of that confidence on where we were going and I would say that's more what I'm proud of is the fact that it was pen and papered and then came to. And I think that's also just a testament for how I love my team to work which is write write it down put those goals down and then let's let's support each other on making sure they happen and it wasn't just a you know that? ah that award was data-d drivenven marketing. So I'd love that the other teams involved in that as well. From creative to accounts to strategy. It was really not only for my team on you know, the fact that they pen and papered it. The fact that it was heavily data-d driven but also showing that the integration across the entire organization like that was the big I think that was the big win and we really. Now I think everyone's pretty motivated on what's next right? It really set the it set us it set a new Baseline for ourselves and we're excited to just keep keep going.

Peter Szczerba - Um, but I think that's huge validation because as you kind of describe what? what though or kind of validated for you. It's all the things that you saw to realize in this opportunity that you've been in the last couple of years so that's that's gotta be huge and. I think where I want to kind of kind of take this final question is you know What's your vision for the next five or 10 years like what are you building towards towards now right? like you have a successful data organization. It's growing and what what is next? What is the on the horizon for you that you're building towards now. Yeah.

Joanna McFarlane - Yeah I mean I think we have that's a great question. We have such an amazing structure in place at K u I mean being an independent shop being having the creative leadership strategic leadership analytics media leadership tech leadership. To me. It's it's it's having continuing down the path of having more synergy between all of those all of those teams I'm not what I what I want here is not just ah, an analytics team that is best in class I want an entire organization. That's best in Class. And I love seeing now that our team is our our strategy team brand strategy team is calling on our the analytics team to help feed some of their their research like that is really where to me now we've got a great structure and I want to start filling that in now I think that's. Um, you know that will really be what's next for us is bringing making sure that we further integrate we do have a new vp of tech that dylan that I mentioned that has been with us now for a few months so having him integrating more with the team that that for me is.

Is really just not not really what are we shooting for that's different. It's I like what we're shooting for. Let's just keep doing it better than we are and more integrated than we are but we've set an amazing, an amazing baseline for ourselves and now it's just knowing that like that's the Baseline like what's now. What's next right.

Peter Szczerba - Only up from here. What I love is as I hear you kind of explain that vision and even everything that you've described today you know passion just oozes from every word and I think what resonates for me. Ah hugely is just kind of your ambition.

And you know I think that that is a major driver and it's 1 that I try to channel for myself and I think a lot of people lean into to help propel them to work harder and so you know I think that I love having peers like yourself kind of in my network where I'm just kind of just watching their career right and seeing like oh. Look look at this another jump another another achievement right? and it just kind of is as I keep ah some so select few that I'm keeping my eye on right? It's just like I need to stay competitive right? I need to make sure that I'm progressing in a similar direction I think that that's beneficial to me and that's what I've appreciated kind of have having. You kind of in that network and now being able to sit down and have this conversation and learn a bit more about your mentality and your approach and your journey has been really great for me and I know that there's been a ton of value for the audience to walk away from so you know Joanna McFarlane -  I really appreciate your time It's been a great conversation and honestly I look forward to reconnecting sometime the future and and seeing where you're at and what you've achieved since today.

Joanna McFarlane - Well thank you, It is yeah I appreciate you bringing me on the show and it is always a pleasure chatting with you. So thank you.