OYP Episode 54: Gary Wade
Gary Wade, President of Unilever Canada and former Olympian, tells us about the need to practice leadership in order to become a leader, that in building a wider base you raise your peak, and that getting good at a job doesn't make you ready for the next job, it simply positions you to actually deliver value in your current one.
Interview
Peter Szczerba - Welcome back to the Own Your Potential Podcast where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe about how they've taken control of their career growth and lessons on how you can't too. I'm Peter Szczerba and today I am so very excited to be sitting down with Gary Wade, President of Unilever Canada and former Olympic Athlete.
Gary extremely excited to have you on the podcast today I've been looking forward to this 1 for a while you were on a short list of special guests that I I knew I wanted to have on here at some point in the future. So I'm glad we're here today. But let's just jump right into it. Can you take us through your career journey leading up until this point.
Gary Wade - Sure Peter thank you and I'm sure you say to all your guests that that they're on their short list. So but thank you for for raising that for me and great to spend some time with you so I'll talk a little bit about my journey so far so born in South africa. Grew up in South africa and started my career in unileverver in South africa came straight out of university and was fortunate to be part of a future leaders program and had a couple of roles progressive roles in sales functions in the in unilver south africa. Ah, then had the opportunity to move to canada on at the time what we thought was going to be a 3 year plan apparently we're not particularly good at planning because that was 20 years ago and we still here but been very fortunate to have a number of roles primarily my career has been in sales marketing strategy. Ah, been fortunate to work on some global roles while based in Canada on global teams both in sales capacity and in marketing capacity had the opportunity to be involved in a number of our acquisitions and more so in the. Integrations of businesses that were acquired by unilever which with the biggest 1 being the acquisition of the alberta culver business also being involved in a number of projects where we have disposed of businesses so been involved in acquisition and disposal. And prior to this role. So I've been in this role leading the canadian unilever business for the past four four and a half years and prior to that I was leading our sales organization. So. I was vice president of sales and prior to that I had some senior roles both in sales and marketing capacities here in canada.
Peter Szczerba - Wow I mean 1 of the big reasons why I was so excited to speak to is just because you're certainly 1 of the more human leaders that I've interacted with and for the audience the context of how we met is while I was working on unilever as a contractor you were flagged to me as. The president of the company a couple years ago and I was just sitting there and you happened to just sit down at 1 of the tables near the team that I was supporting and were just incredibly forthcoming just very friendly. You know and then introduced yourself. We had a quick conversation and from there on always took a moment out of whatever you were doing as we passed each other in the halls or whatever to have an interaction. And always that always kind of stuck with me as a really positive experience with a senior leader at a client site that I had never had prior to that and so you know everything I'd heard about you and like your approach to leadership has always been incredibly positive and so I really wanted to to connect and explore. You know your career journey your approach leadership. But also the journey that got you to the point that you're at because I think 1 of the unique things about the position you're in and I kind of mentioned to you as we spoke prior to to jumping on the podcast is that as a president of a company like Unilever canada. It's so Multifaceted. There's manufacturing involved. There's digital involved. There's sales as you mentioned involved the operations and of acquisition and and disposal of of brands and companies that is very broad especially in comparison to let's say a wholly digital company where if you sit as the senior leader of that company. You know there may be sales and operations in the people aspect. But then you know it might be very focused on software or otherwise how do you build a career that puts you in a position to be a good leader of something so broad and multifaceted as let's say a cp company.
Gary Wade - Ah, big question and I'll tackle it in a couple of different ways and you might have to interrupt me a few times to make sure I stay on point. I'll tell you about the 3 things that I think about when I'm in this role and then I'll use that to sort of bridge back to what I thought about enrolled and as I developed as a leader. So I think probably the first statement that I'd make is that businesses are. Enabled run and grow through people. So I am a firm believer in the role that people in the organization play as being absolutely critical. It doesn't matter whether you're in a tech company a service provider in a manufacturing and even sometimes people say will say to me. With all automation. What do you?? What do you think about the future and personally I'm encouraged because 1 we will need people to develop the ai the technology etc and as we automate more parts of business in general as a broad Statement. We will need people to interpret data and still make the decision. So That's a bit of a philosophical point of view but the 3 areas to come back to that I focus on for me as a leader is 1 leadership 2 execution and 3 strategy and I think at any time any leader needs to be balancing. All 3.
You absolutely need a strategy to be competitive. You need leadership because you need an engaged workforce or team that really feel that they can bring their best every day and you need to be able to execute so as I think about my. My role that I'm in now and previous roles I'm always thinking through those lenses and balancing how much time at different points I need to spend on those. So. So then if you take that back I I did a business degree in South africa and I got into unilever and. I immediately went into a sales role and I studied business management finance and marketing and so to be honest I was a little bit like what is this wholesal thing. What do I do etc and so I got some really good experience and.
As I as I move through progressive roles. What I was always think I always had a curiosity for not just the function that I was in but rather how that function interacted with different parts of the business and I always always like to look holistically at how the role that we played how.
What part of the machine our cog was in terms of doing it and and I'll sort of I'm flipping back and forth. But 1 of the things that we talk a lot about in Unilva canada is building an organization that has functional expertise but not functional Silos because I really believe for any.
Person no matter where they are in their career while you might have an area of expertise business now is far more fluid. We need to be very broad. So I believe you know first and foremost you need to have competence. You need to be able to do either 1 function or many functions. It doesn't really matter. But more importantly, the skills of problem solving collaborating brainstorming engaging. Those are the skills that are most important. So I always looked for roles that would keep challenging me personally and I'll give you an example I'd been in Canada we'd move to canada I was in a I'd had. 2 so ah, 2 progressive roles in the ice cream business and I was offered a role to come into at that time ice cream was separate to our beauty personal care and foods businesses which were together and in terms of a work level. In in our organization. It was actually a lower work level. It had less scope but it was a marketing role in a in in now home care business and prior to that. All of my experience would be in ice cream and I remember my wife laura saying okay let me understand this so we in Canada you've got a company car.
Work in an office. We live out outside of the city. The office was very close to where I worked so you're going to give the company car away you're going to have to commute downtown and you've got a much smaller team than you're currently working on help me understand why this is a good idea and I said well. At the stage that I was in my career I was concerned that I had too much sales experience too much. So I'd been too focused just on sales and just primarily in ice cream and I felt for me for my further development I needed to get some meaningful marketing experience I needed to see that I could manage. Or grow and learn in a different culture slightly different culture. So it and she was absolutely supportless. She's like oh fine or figure up. Um, so I use that as it's more about you know, career progression is not linear and my my sort of Benchmark or judge has always been. Where am I going to get development where am I going to grow and then I end up staying in home care and took on a role leading at the time our laundry business which was our most challenged business we had in Ulyber canada at that time we were struggling to make profitability. We hadn't grown for a number of years. We had a major competitor who had ah a dominant market share. And I learned so much going into that role around leadership around changing business etc that it was a very it was a foundational experience for me going forward and then my last area which is in my opinion the most important for for myself or for anyone. I'd say for actually most any role is the whole idea of leadership. You know I've always looked for opportunities that would help me develop learn have the opportunity to practice leadership because at the end of the day whether we are.
Ah, service provider whether we are the manufacturing product that consumers consume whether you in a not-for-profit whether you're in a government organization whether it's an intellectual or a physical business. At the end of the day going back to what I started with the importance of people being able to lead people inspire people. Engage people is probably the most important. Um, it's not even a skill.. It's a competency that 1 would need to 1 needs to develop and 1 was. You just develop it Automatically I think as you're going through your career so bit of a rambling answer to your question but I'm sure there's many things that will spark further questions for you.
Peter Szczerba - No an enormous amount of what you said resonates me and I don't I think it was actually quite succinct and what I want to jump back to is this idea so as you speak to the idea of splitting your focus around across these 3 areas of strategy leadership and execution and you early on mentioned that you. Developed a large focus on sales particularly in the ice cream business but then over the course of career seem to your career have been conscious of when you were starting to develop either a gap area or 1 of those 3 areas were falling behind. So were you consciously then looking for new opportunities or was it simply establishing a mindset that when an opportunity comes next I will jump on it once you started to identify that I'm starting to get an imbalance across those 3 or is there at different stages in your career. Ah, necessary imbalance. For example now. Maybe you lean much heavier on strategy and leadership than you do on execution this as a see the most senior leader whereas early in your career that may have been balanced heavier in the direction of execution and is that something that you were conscious of as you were making decisions to go from 1 role to the next.
Gary Wade - Hindsight's always beautiful and I'd love to clearly articulate that I had all that under control earlier on my career and it was all planned out. Ah but that wouldn't be true. Um I'll say something that will then lead into that 1 of the.
Attributes that I believe is really important that has helped me tremendously and I think it is important for everyone is self-awareness and understanding where you are emotionally physically developmentally where you are and. A difference between self-awareness and self-critique I'm not particularly critical of myself and that sounds arrogant and I apologize and that didn't come out well but I don't go down in myself I Know there's many areas that I believe are strengths of mine and they're areas of opportunity.
And I've always had a mindset that I want to build on and strengthen my strengths and be aware of my opportunities and as long as they're not liabilities I'm comfortable and because I worry sometimes and I've seen this when I've been given feedback.
I know early on in my career when I gave people feedback. It's human nature. You want to gen you want to gravitate towards hey you got an opportunity in this area got an opportunity in this Area you really need to build that up and then people forget what they were doing well in the start to actually progress. So um, that was. But of an aside so I think self-awareness is really important I was aware and and again this will sound more probably hopefully sound clearer than it was in my head earlier on in my career but I was less I still am I'm not fussed about the. Title of a role because organizational structures will change titles will change what I was aware of earlier is what I liked and what I liked was autonomy I got energy from leading people I got energy from driving change.
Um, very competitive I come from a competitive sport background I get energy from winning and however you define winning but winning in results and delivering results. So with that I was aware that I wanted to create I wanted to have enough Bandwidth or Breadth in my career that allowed me to.
Lead an organization big organization. Small organization doesn't really matter doesn't really matter the industry I really wanted to have autonomy and be able to lead an organization so there were different points that I felt okay based on the kind of experiences I've had. If I put my mind into the future would that be differentiating enough for me because at the end of the day. Everyone's career choice. Sorry everyone's career path is different. There's no 1 there's no single person that's ever had the same career path as you've had peter and there's no 1 that'll have the same career path that I have because it's.
Be similarities, we have to be you have to be aware of the the sort of the tools that you're building to put in your toolbox and I knew that.
And this is again another sporting analogy I come from an endurance sport background when you when you're training for an event. You've got to build your base and the bigger and more stable your bases. Ah the higher your peak can be and I think it's very similar in our personal development. So I knew that I wanted to get a breath of experience.
Across different parts of the organization in different types of organizations and in different situations so turnround stable businesses. It's it's funny I'll give you an example my first director role in sales that I took was I took on a very well-ablished team. A business that was running incredibly well had did delivered growth was very stable and I took over from a very experienced and very strong leader and I was terrified because I was worried I was going to mess it up because the individual I was taking over was so well respected so well loved and all of my.
The majority of my experiences prior to that was starting something new or fixing something and I knew how to do that and it's funny that I said you know I said to people I'm taking over this role and I'm terrified and people got this is like the best job in the company. It's running Well, you don't have to you know.
Just don't mess it up and I go. That's what terrifies me because it's actually running so well. But this sort of self-awareness of different types of opportunities and then you ask a very important question. Do you go looking for it or you or are you aware of it and wait to it comes 1 of the.
1 of the things that I learned fairly early on and it's ah it's more of a it's ah it's a belief and then it's a learning is I'm really focused on keep your head down deliver results focus on what's in front of you right now and good things will happen to you. Yes, you need to be thinking into the future. But.
There have been times in my career when I've been like what's my next job and you you try and a second guesss and play in your mind these different roles I try not to overthink that because I worry and I've seen with people that I've worked with and people that I have ah who have worked for me once you start.
Getting too far ahead of yourself. You actually don't focus on what it is that you're doing and then link to that I remember getting some experience I was in a marketing role I was getting this advice from someone I was in a marketing role and I was in that phase I was going.
Okay, I'm close to becoming a director I've got all the experiences and I was having these repeated conversations with my manager at the time he was a vice president of marketing and he he actually got frustrated with me which was really helpful for me because he basically said just stop. You know what is the rush.
You're on the right path you're doing the right things and the worst thing you can do is leave before you've got the value and and I was in a role at that time and he said don't leave until you've got the value from it and that's really struck stuck with me because so often particular when you're earlier on in your career. You.
As soon as you can do the job. You think you're ready to do the next job and I will say with experience now. My view is once you can actually do your day job and you're able to be in a position that you start adding value to the role. You actually start adding value to yourself.
No matter how smart you are no matter how brilliant you are when you move into a new organization. A new role and you functional area. It's going to take you 1215 months just to understand what's happening even if you're moving very quickly and only once you get to be able to. Do the job competently. Can you actually add value to the role and value to yourself and I was in a role where I had been It was actually that same customer team that I was talking about I'd been in the role for a couple of years I had seen an opportunity where I could bring a difference where while the results had been very good. There was a.
And not a flaw but we were going to reach this point where the brands that we had been growing at this at these 2 customers were no longer that strategic for us and we had and we had to we had to do some heavy work now. So that we can continue to grow in the future. So we had. 1 of the areas that we did is we did a major major renegotiation of a multi-year contract and at the time our president was making some changes on the marketing side and wanted me to lead a big piece of the business and I remember sitting in his office and we had a couple of conversations I said look I'd love to do it.
I'm sure I could do it reasonably? well and I'm sure you could replace me in the role that I'm in but I really I want to stay because what we were embarking on with this customer I'm not going to say was highly risky, but there was a significant change agenda that could have gone horribly wrong and I said.
Really wanted to be there to see it through because if it went horribly wrong I wanted to be the person trying to fix it rather than advising the person who replaced me to fix it and I wanted to get that personal learning and you know to to at the time our presidents credit he said absolutely.
Fun. We will get someone else to do the marketing job that we were looking at so just having that self-awareness of of saying not actually leaving something too soon.
Peter Szczerba - Yeah, so I'm I'm very curious though because I think it takes a deep level of maturity to have that level of Self-awareness did you have mentors in your career that helped you in that or was that just something that you happened to to be quite. To be quite good at.
Gary Wade - Um, a combination. So a combination of of both I would say growing up in South africa as a white south african during the apartheid years had a really big impact on me.
But ironically it actually had a much bigger impact on me once I'd left south africa than when I was in South africa and sometimes I'm quite self-critical having said I'm not that self-critical I am self-critical that maybe I should have done more around racial inequality and all that was wrong in South africa. But because of what ah and I was fortunate my parents were not liberal but they were very balanced and I was even though I grew up in a white neighborhood and went to a a white school I did through my boy scouts and through the sport that we did which was kayaking I got to see a lot of south africa and I did have. Ah, friends there who were from different parts of south africa and the reason I talk about that 1 there's an equity diversity and inclusion angle. But there's also an angle of and I'm sometimes my daughters get frustrated with me I have 3 daughters. They get frustrated with me because they say wow your upbringing was different. It was different. You know we grew up. Ah you know without having what I would say the luxuries and the safety that you know people who would have grown up in Canada have and that's not ah, it's not a good or a bad. It just is a thing and I think as a result of that. Um.
Think my own personal self-awareness of the situation that I was in and others weren't in probably forced me or provided me the opportunity for a bit more deeper thought and reflection and also just the way my brain is wired is I'm a very pragmatic person. So I do think.
Quite logically so I think the combination of those allows you to develop some self-awareness I was also a very competitive athlete and there's lots of benefits. There's lots of I see lots of parallels between competitive sport and business and career. So probably a whole combination of those. Plus then good mentors along the way. So I've been very fortunate through my career both here in canada and in South africa to just have ah people who I would call role models people who are mentors I've always enjoyed observing people. And you know leadership in particular I'm I'm I don't say I'm always but I'm often inspired by leaders and then I try to think through what is it that they are doing and not doing that's inspiring me. And then as important as leaders who have inspired me. There's been leaders who I have worked with who've been less inspiring or less of the role model and as ironic as the sound I've learned as as much from those leaders as I have from super inspirational leaders in terms of.
I Don't say learning from their mistakes but observing what some leaders will do and seeing the impact that it will have on people around them and then go That's something for me to know observe and learn from so that if I'm in a similar position I try to avoid those sort of. Um, situations where because of their actions. They weren't as engaging or inclusive or encouraging as they could have been so.
Peter Szczerba - Definitely and and as you mentioned that last part around understanding kind of what a leader brings to the table that is both positive and negative and learning from both that's something over the last five years or so in my career I have started to see very clearly which has been a huge benefit to me because when you start to take a leader. Or a mentor for the 3 sixty degree individual that they are I think then you can really get some accelerative learning from how they approach problems how they manage themselves how they deal with people and clients etc. I do very much want to circle back on. The equity diversity inclusion aspect of things as a result of your upbringing but before I get there I want to touch on something that I love when somebody else brings up because I have to be careful not to bring it up every episode but the idea of competitive sport having both parallels with professional careers but also very transferable positives. From work ethic standpoint ambition standpoint I am a huge believer of that having played high levels of basketball. So as you bring that up though I do wonder you know as an athlete, especially a high level athlete a lot of your drive comes from aspiring to be the best. From reaching and ascending to the peak of whatever mountaintop that is ah that that is for your type of competition or sport so that is always the driver right? And yeah, you have to be focused on the work and do the work to get there. But it's what pushes you there but but you sort of made the comment that. You you also need to focus on the right now and be good at what you're doing and focus on delivering good things will come now. So how do you balance the ambition and the competitive nature that comes from being a high-level athlete which naturally would kind of lend itself to looking 2 3 four steps ahead in your career at all times. Right? But really reeling yourself in and and channeling that to focus on the right now and doing the work. How how are you able to balance that.
Gary Wade - Sure, um, so I'll start at the not at the end because my competitive journey but probably the highlight for me was I was on the national kayak team for south africa and I competed in the olympics. So I competed in the ninety 2 olympics
So I was 22 when I competed at the olympics and then continued on to be a very competitive athlete for a number of years in kayiaking and then switched to triathlon running cycling and have now actually in the last 2 years got back into kayking but it's a bit of a circular thing.
I think for me what what I learned through at an early age was my father was kayking I got into kayaking when I was probably nine or 10 I think I did my first race when I was eleven or twelve and then the real breakthrough came from me as I won my first. National championship I won the kayak slilem under 14 championship in South africa and there's actually many parallels to what we've really talked about and and that that awok in me a passion I mean it was there before but.
Growing up in Apartheid south africa is we were banned from international sport. So ah, we only there was only a few occasions when you could compete internationally and the the symbol of the national team was the springbucks that anyone who follows rugby will know that that's what the the national team is called.
So this idea of being a springbuck athlete or being a national athlete was just something that was very very out of reach because very few people were getting that opportunity because we weren't we were banned from most international sports but there were times when sanctions were either relaxed or. International teams were given the what's the right word the the approval to come and then compete in South africa. So I think I learned fairly early on because and then again, very incredible parallel I was very fortunate after winning that event a guy who became an incredible role model.
Inspiration and a friend of mine alec who ironically he and I competed on the olympic team together he was at the time 10 years older than me, he's still he's passed away but at the olympics he was still 10 years older than me as well. But. He was in his mid twenty s he was like the top slolum kayaking athlete in in South africa and he took me under his wing. He lived on a farm I went to his farm. He trained I bought his kayak I absolutely I idolized him and what I just learnt in those years was I needed to win the under 16.
Ah, Championships I needed to compete in the provincial I needed to compete in the provincial to get on the provincial team to compete at the national event and then you know just keep going and I quickly learned while you have to have a dream that's far out there and an ambition that's far out there. You've got to do the work every day.
You've got to get that hour of training in or the 2 hours of training in every single day you've got to sleep. You've got to have nutrition and it's it comes in very very very small increments over an extended period of time and through that I was able to meet a number of high-level athletes and you know I was fortunate to just sort of. And I had tons of setbacks along the way I got injured I didn't make teams I stopped paddling for about nine months at 1 point because I thought I was never going to make it and then you know all the cliches that you hear athletes talk about I think we all go through those but you learn and the dream.
The ambition never goes away but I also learned and I remember so in I was a gene id as a south african we had to do mandatory military training. So when I'd finished school I'll be very quick with us I went overseas and raced internationally for a year
Did that twice actually I went when I was I used 16 because there was I was able to race I raced for a summer in as a 15 year old in austria and germany I was fortunately an austrian team allowed me to join their team and then I raced with them. Not the austrian team but a club team. And then I did the same thing when I was 18 and spent a year in the uk traveled all through europe and racing and then came back went through a really bad patch had an opportunity to make a national team didn't make it. And then in ninety at the end of Ninety 1 it was announced that we were would be allowed to compete in the ninety 2 olympics so there was we knew in the middle of Ninety 1 but there was ah ah a bit of a rush to get organized to select the team and then we still had to qualify in the year of Ninety 2.
And I had a mindset at the time which was my whole life revolved around making that team I went to bed sleeping I went to bed at nights thinking about making the team I woke up in the morning I was training 2 or 3 times a day I put everything into it and I remember.
1 of my friends said to me Gary what what are you going to do if you don't make it and I remember reflecting and said I'll be very disappointed but I'd actually be happy because I know I I have not left a stone unturned I've given it my absolute best and I know for sure I'm going to be a better kayaker and if it's not good enough to make the team. I'll be disappointed and I'll I don't know if I could try harder because I was at by limit. But I think that grounding also maybe speaks to that just sort of self-awareness of and it's a little bit like that in a career you know I I might not have got to this role. You know there's still many things that I want to do in my professional career. Might not get to those goals or Ambitions but the journey and that sounds super cliche as well. But the journey is as much part of it as the destination and knowing that every day you're just going to get a little bit better. Try a little bit harder. Overcome setbacks is is. Is fulfilling in itself.
Peter Szczerba - absolutely absolutely and I and I love somebody in a leadership position like you talking about how athletics and sports in general physical physical activity contributes to your professional growth and acceleration in your journey just because I'm such a strong believer. Even just recreational sports as an adult make all the difference going through in ah an hour or 2 of recreational sports of the highs lows the adversity the challenges, the failure, the success in an hour of you know for me pick up basketball. You could win a couple games you'd lose a couple games you could hit a game winner. You could have a game winner hit on you. You could get dunked on that and it's never fun, right? You know all of those types of things you get humbled. You get put on a pedestal and celebrated all in the span of an hour and that roller closer of emotion I think helps you maintain a level head. Throughout less extreme emotions that you might experience in other parts of your life like for example at work and I have always found a huge benefit in continuing to play you know in very competitive men's leagues et Cetera now running a nonprofit organization focused on elite basketball in Canada those things just very much keep. The kind of emotional ranges in perspective in my professional life and so I love you bringing that up because I really just can't I can't get enough of hammering that home for people that it's never too late to start and it'll have an impact on the rest of your life particularly in your career. But now.
Gary Wade - And I would say it's not only sport. It could be. It could be music. It could be religion. It could be running a not for profit. It could be engaging with the community because it links it to something else which you haven't brought up but I'll just it's a good lead on which is.
You know we often used to talk about this idea of work life balance I Years ago said I don't think there's any such thing as work life balance for me. It's a continuum you your work your life your if you married if you have a partner if you have children if you have sport. It's all a continuum that all flows together.
You know I think by you know, um so finding other ways to inspire you engage you stretch you? Whatever it is is so important for us as humans I Believe so.
Peter Szczerba - No, and but this idea of inspiration you bridge perfectly to the fact that I know having worked at Unilever Unilever is or with Unilever as as a consultant is a purpose driven organization globally right? and that is very key to the organizational culture of Unilever. And I think that it's likely channeled and kind of demonstrated wholly by its Leaders. So tell me a little bit about what how how that is differentiating in regards to organizations that are very much purpose driven How you have to embody that as a leader and what impact that has kind of on your role and your trajectory in your career.
Gary Wade - Sure so you know a lot about Unilever. What? what? Unilever's purposes is to make sustainable living commonplace and we are guided by something that we call our compass and our compass really is our business strategy. That has purpose and sustainability in in it and purpose is very much in our dna. It's something. That's always been part of who we are as an organization is what we do. And I think where we unique is that we believe that doing and we're not unique, actually more organizations are following which I really believe but doing business in a way that's good for both society and the planet is not only good for all stakeholders. But it's also good for shareholders as well. We talk about what we call a multi-stakeholder model where we are and it's interesting. My my middle daughter is in third year now of doing a business degree and I remember in a fish year so dad tell me who's the most important stakeholder in your business is it the shareholder is it the employee or the consumer. I said gracie. Ah great question. Let me tell you about our un leave a multi-stakeholder model because we really do believe that consumers customers partners um suppliers the planet society and our shareholders are equally important.
Because we really believe and I truly believe that organizations that are not doing business in a way that is good for either the planet or society or ideally both are not going to be in Business. You know it's no longer. You know sometimes 1 of. Un leave has been on this journey for many years and we at times have been criticized that we were maybe too focused on doing good in the world and not doing enough for our shareholders and. I don't believe that I really believe that organizations and candidly I'm really encouraged to see more and more businesses being purpose-led we know that our brands that have a clear purpose whether it's a brand like helmans which is really tackling food waste or a brand like.
Dove which is really tackling self-esteem and the impact that body image has on self-esteem and everything we've done around real beauty a brand like seventh generation which is a natural cleaning product and using regeneratitor of nature in the business a brand like shay moisture which has got.
Ah, founded in the roots of giving back to its founders and really helping African Americans who'd come to the us and now we've expanded that brand. We know that our purpose led brands are growing twice as fast and sometimes more than our brands that I don't have as clearly defined a purpose.
And you know I'm sure all of us can look to businesses that we know brands that have a purpose. You know we have great brands are competitors of great brands. But what will differentiate brands in the future is brands that consumers go okay the product benefits. Physical benefits of that brand or the emotional benefits that that brand give me are good. But if I'm going to make but most of our brands and we make personal care products. We make food products we make ice cream products we make household finas. Many of our competitors have brands that are comparable in terms of quality effectivenesst, Etc. What'll differentiate brands and companies in the future are brands that do have a purpose that's beyond their shareholders shareholders are important but they're not the only stakeholder. So um.
That's a little bit of the where unilever stands I would say for us at unilever we see that as ah, there's a number of benefits that we get from having a purpose led business 1 we know there's growth. We are seeing Benefits. We move to in Canada we've been using renewable energy for over 10 years globally we've been using renewable energy across the whole our whole network for the last 2 3 years and we know by reducing a significant amount of waste. We've been able to save over the last 10 over two ten years over 2 billion dollars of ah material costs that go into our factories. We also know that we are able to attract talent you know more and more people are wanting to if they're going to be spending.
8 nine ten hours six hours however much time you're spending at work people want to work for an organization that's making a difference so we find that we're able to attract incredibly good talent into our business. So there really is. There's actually and this will sound somewhat counterintuitive but there's a really powerful business case. For a purpose led business and then to the last and there's probably lots within this that we could spend hours talking about this topic but within that we I think. Leading a business with purpose reallyly and that'll link into a conversation that we'll probably have on equity diversity inclusion in a business. That's really wanting to make a difference. We are able to attract people who want to make a difference and I think that's where you get the synergy between purpose led leaders. Purposeled business and some of my friends many of my friends still say to me Gary you still a unilever because I've been in unileverver for over 25 years now and I go yeah I'm still and 1 of the key reasons that I say is 1 they keep employing me which is good. Ah but 2
There's a strong alignment between my own personal values and the values of the organization. It doesn't mean the values of the organization are right or my own personal values are right? but I often say to people finding an organization where your own values are represented or you see them and you can. Bring yourself to work is going to be a place where you can be at your best. So.
Peter Szczerba - Yeah, and that's exactly where I was going to bridge to and or kind of try and so make this where I I think that the idea of having an intersection of what you do at work with a passion or a purpose area or your values where you're able to bring that whole self into the work has a trans. Formative effect on the type of effort you put in at work the type of care you have for the work that you do the people that you work with the people that you work for in terms of your customers whoever that end and stakeholder is I think that it has a huge impact and to your point the ability to stay in an organization for 25 years you know that has ah identifying with that organization's values and purpose has a huge part of that huge part of that because otherwise I think it's it's very safe to say that you could have very easily been swayed away by some you know, incredible. Ah, stretch opportunity or accelerative opportunity. But if it if it didn't align to your purpose and values the way that unilever did it's a hard choice to make. But um, as you mentioned I'd love to to transition over to the idea of diversity equity and colclusion because as you mentioned. Growing up in in South africa I think that you have an experience that's quite unique in kind of the imbalances in diversity equity and inclusion that can exist and so I guess you sort of hinted at it in terms of you know regards to the safety that you experienced there versus when you went to a place like Canada well talk about how you know. The equity and diversity aspect of it. Your perspectives you left south africa with then shaped how you interacted with the world. Once you came to a place like canada and then also how it shaped your approach to to your work and your career.
Gary Wade - Yeah, so yeah, like I said I'm I'm often self-critical of maybe I should have done more when I was in South africa and but at the end of the day I can't go back in time. What I can do is make a difference now. So. You know, growing up in South africa probably similar to the sporting analogy it probably it was having more of an effect on me than I realized I would say it it probably made me I've always wanted to and I've always enjoyed contact with people I enjoy hearing their stories and hearing their perspective.
And that was ah something I enjoyed doing in South africa and something that I've always ah continued to do I genuinely like to learn about other people's cultures experiences. What makes them tech and what makes them the unique individuals that they are. Ah, we also my I got 3 daughters my youngest daughter who's 16 now is also born. Not also she was born with severe mental and physical disability which gave us a real exposure to a very different type of inclusion and equity and we met through that some just in.
Credible people who give their life in service to helping people and it was probably the combination of growing up in South africa having all these thoughts in my head around fairness or unfairness equity and and the importance of inclusion and then once rachel was born and then we started interacting with. Incredible people who are smart intelligent have done as much training. In fact, have done far more education than I have done who are working in roles where they working 1 on 1 and rachel's been fortunate to have a lot of support with people and I remember having this conversation with ah. Person who at the time was a manager of mine and then ah, a mentor and I'm just saying I was just blown away by these people and he said to me at 1 point gary if you're thinking about a career change but now might not be the right time to rush off and try to do something because you you're on a decent track. Yeah I said no I'm not but it inspired me to. Do even more given the organization I'm working for and the role that I'm in and probably about 12 or 13 years ago now in Canada we'd always had a business now canada as a country I would say as a broad statement. We're not perfect, but we are. If I compare ourselves and I shouldn't but if I on a scale of where we are as an as a nation of as being inclusive I'd say we are we have a good. We're in a good starting point if I compare to other countries and certainly a far more inclusive culture than South africa certainly during the apartheid years.
And so being in that being in a company of the unilever which had always valued and 1 of the reasons in all seriousness why I accepted the job at unilever I did have a couple of options when I left university was unilever in South africa was known as a company that was always inclusive.
We had a very fair representation and I went into a team where I was working shoulder to shoulder with people from all parts of south africa now they did offer me a job so I don't want to be I don't want to sound like um, entirely what the right word is they offered me a good job and it was a good career but 1 of the. 1 of the areas that really attracted me about unilevers they were known as an equal opportunity employee and I really felt that culture in South africa and we did as much as we took the opportunity deciding to stay in Canada not going back to south africa to. Help be part of the solution was something that laura and I really debated. That being said, having made the choice to stay in Canada staying at unilever I had the opportunity 1012 years ago when in uninliver canada we said we really wanted to embrace. And get to a gender balance organization and make equity diversity inclusion and I was asked probably because of much of the story I've just told and roles that I'd played and positions that I'd had I was asked I was on our leadership team at the time. Ah, to be the champion of equity diversity inclusion and we put a number of we you know we had a manager who was running it I was really just the the spokesperson and an advocate. But I really saw the role that senior leaders could play and we did work with the win team with he for she. Um, and then we quite quickly transitioned to saying okay, we need to go Beyond gender. We need to be tackling ethnic diversity religious diversity sexual diversity people making sure our business is attractive for people with physical disabilities. And then I've been fortunate in the role that I'm in now where I'm really trying to use the position I have to advocate in our industry because while I may have a point of view I'm I'm also very balanced that you know.
Sometime in the future I will no longer be in this role and Unilever will have someone who is equally equipped to do the role I Really want to make use of the time that I have to make change in our Industry. So Our industry is still our industry is making considerable progress. I Would say though we are still a very male dominated industry particularly at the senior levels I'm talking the fmcg industry and we've got progress. So I sharing the unity of a story. Many other manufacturers are making really good progress I would say our retailers are making really good progress. Because we need to do it because 1 it's the right thing to do just from a human a human perspective having an organization that has diversity in it is is absolutely the right thing to do but actually more important than diversity is inclusion because you can have an organization that has.
Ah, representation across the different spectrums of gender ethnicity religion, etc. But the key is having an inclusive organization and I had a story a good friend of mine Manundle bao who I met at unilever and he grew up he same age as I am he grew up. In apartheid south africa is a black south african in a township he shared stories of what happened to his parents when he was a young kid and you know there were times I get emotional when I talk about it but I was sometimes and mundla he and I became close friends I've been to his house. Um, and he I'd sometimes say to Manda how can you be friendly with me knowing what people that look like me have done to you and he said well you different and you ask questions and you want to understand but it's you know this idea of learning and he he worked for me for a while we joined you and live together I got promoted before he did in 1 role and he was. Working with me and we were having we were a couple of times we would go into our our board meeting our boardroom and at the time our president was an incredible man who I've I've learned a lot from and he passed away a few years ago but he was a mentor of mine for many years and I said to Manla. And you got to speak more in the in the in the in the meeting you know I know you've got the good points and he said to me gary. But I think you all rude because in my culture we the more we respect someone. The more we the more senior someone in is in my culture and he grew up in. He was a zulu and in the zulu culture. He said we show respect by having pausing so Malcolm was our president. You know when malcolm has spoken I show I'm showing him respect by giving silence. Before I speak and you guys I just can't it's I can't speak because you rude, you know you interrupting malcolm not gary personally but others like you know what? it's like at our meetings. The person hasn't names finished speaking and the next person's jumping in the next person's jumping in you' all got a point and you're trying to show how smart you are. And I remember just going wow I had no understanding of that. Um and similarly just things that are culturally different and this is you know this is 20 years ago um as a sign of respect and mundla is. A big guy. Good looking very strong went to he was a bodybuilder he would often you know when he would shake my hand in his culture as a sign of respect he would because if he if he was shaking Malcolm's hand he would always shake with a very soft hand because he's showing. That the other person is the more senior person. He's more respectable and then the longer and then he would also show respect or it's more of a sign of love or friendship you hold hands for longer. So once he told me that I was very comfortable I would hold hands with my with mundler.
Now that was in ah in a time 20 years ago where you know people would look at you like why are you holding hands with Muundler I'm like well he likes me and I like him so I'm quite comfortable having a longer handshake with him and I give those examples I mean they interesting but the point is understanding different cultures and um. This whole idea of inclusion. So what mudler and I did was once I understood that it was then I wouldn't say was easy but what we agreed is mandler would give me the look he would like not his head at me I've got something to say and because I didn't have a problem either interrupting malcolm I didn't I was respectful to him but I would say. Sorry malcolm or whoever was going to jump in Sarah she was our marketing lady and jane who was h r sorry sarah mundler's got a point he would like to make and what what I saw from that is 1 then munddla got comfortable. He would be able to speak. And then through my behaviors I saw the impact it started to have on other people because people while I never told anyone because they didn't that was mundish story to share and he had shared it with me because I had asked. We then talked about it later as a leadership team but I saw how my behaviors. Because I understood and it's not about gary but by understanding where Mandla was coming from I saw how I could he could be included in the conversation and literally we only had to do that for a few meetings it then became people would go. Okay mudler iss not going to even if they didn't understand it. They went Muundler's got
He's always got something to say when he talks. He's really smart. Let's ask Manla what he thinks and over time it just became people and I saw the impact that inclusion had so you know it's ah it's a story that brings to life while while while diversity is important the work that we do to make sure people feel included. And you can only include people if you really start to understand them. So.
Peter Szczerba - It's a beautiful, Beautiful story I think you know the demonstration of how simple act repeated a couple of times until it became normalized could change the behavior of an entire group is just so powerful. And this was just solving for such a small and simple cultural difference that you know had you not asked. No 1 would have ever known and you know that storyline could have ended quite differently for for yourself and for online. So I find that quite inspirational in terms of you know, just somebody who's early in their career. And has a lot of time left to make impact that a small thing like that can make a pretty um you know large impact with quite a bit of a bit of a ripple effect. So Now you know as we kind of come to a close on this conversation I think you know it's fair to say that kind of as you mentioned earlier as we chatted that. You know at points in your career you focus less on the title and especially now as you're in the most senior title there really is in in your market and more on the impact and everything you just described around wanting to you know. With with the time left you have in your career to make an impact on the industry and shift the way the industry thinks about diversity inclusion and impact and equity I think is just 1 of the main 1 1 of many examples to why I wanted to have you on the podcast to to learn about your story. Because that's very much what this all of these episodes are an opportunity for me is is to learn and understand how other people have achieved success and made impact in their careers and you know I have to say gary This has been a phenomenal 1 I've been hanging off of every 1 of your words as I'm sure every listener will be. I Sincerely appreciate your time and I honestly look forward to connecting again for a follow-up conversation somewhere down the line to see where you're at with making the impact you want to make.
Gary Wade - Peter Thank you really Ah, it's ah it's always easy to talk about myself I'll end by saying that and this not doesn't go for just senior leaders. You know we are. If we are working for organizations or even if we have our own organizations. We have a role you know first and foremost to be looking after our family and our own wellbeing but particularly as leaders and you know I'm very aware that I'm in a fortunate position to have an organization like unilever and I'd not. Not sure where I'm going to go next but I might be an organization that has far less impact and I might not have quite the same opportunity. But we have we have an opportunity and we need to take it because I really believe to solve the world's problems. The challenges and the opportunities that are ahead of us in terms of social inequality climate change business needs to play a role business needs to step up. There's a role, the government needs to play. There's a a role that ngos need to play. There's ah, there's a role that civil society needs to play but business has probably. The biggest opportunity to make a difference because we are employing people we making the products and services we are driving things forward and I really believe for all of us no matter where we are in our business. We all have an opportunity to make a difference and I'm I'm hopeful that. But the few people that got to the end of this ah podcast if they take 1 thing away is there's real I find real value in trying to give back and do more and even if we can help 1 or 2 people along the way to make a difference then that would be ah, really powerful. So Peter thank you for your time.