OYP Episode 48: Arthur Filip

Arthur Filip, Chief Growth Officer at Publicis Sapient, tells us about the value of ambition, the importance of diversity in lived experiences and how his pursuit of solving challenging problems helped guide his career decisions along his professional journey.

Interview

Peter Szczerba - Welcome back to the Own Your Potential Podcast, where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe about how they've taken control their career growth and lessons on how you can too. I'm Peter Szczerba, and today, I'm extremely excited to be sitting down with Arthur Filip, the Chief Growth Officer of Publicis Sapient. Arthur, really excited to have you on the podcast today. I've been looking forward to sitting down and having this conversation. Why don't we just get right into it? Can you take us through your career journey leading up until this point?

Arthur Filip - Sure. Thank you, Peter. It's, it's thrilling for me to be here today. I've been looking forward to this as well. And I've become a huge fan of this podcast. I think I told you even before I joined the firm, I was searching for ways to really dig in and understand the culture and the environment of the company. Clearly the podcast is going beyond executives of publicist sapient. I mean, there's some wonderful people from around the industry that are part of the podcast now, but at least the first number of episodes helped me kind of get a feel for how people were thinking and feeling in the heartbeat. So congratulations to you.

Peter Szczerba - No, thank you. Thank you for joining.

Arthur Filip - You know a little bit about my background and some of the context. You know, I was, I'll rewind it a little bit before my career, I was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And I was fortunate growing up, I spent about a third to almost a half of my childhood, not just in the United States, but in Poland and in Russia. And my father was a defector from communist Poland back in the 1960s. He was he came here, as a medical student, he was not allowed to return to the communist bloc, once he became an American citizen and declared that he was going to stay, but I was allowed as a young child to go back and visit my grandparents and other family members. And so I'd spend my summers and holidays there. And, you know, for me, I bring this up, because this was a part of my childhood that was really formative. And it was at the height of the Cold War in the 80s and early 90s. And I'd leave the the, you know, secure confines of the suburbs of Philadelphia and the capitalist United States. And I go, you know, land and basically get my food cart, where once a week, I had to stand in line to get my red, toilet paper and meat. And I think the big lesson for me early on was, that helped me understand different cultures, and that not everything is going to be nice and comfortable that there are different philosophies and different governing bodies that that may have an implication on how you live in and, you know, grow up and things of that nature. I went to school in Boston, phenomenal place. And, in fact, when I was graduating, it was about the time that that sapient was starting out in this world. So I remember a lot of the hype and the early energy around the company. I've had a fantastic career over 30 years, started out at a company that no longer exists today called Digital Equipment Corporation in a marketing and management development training program, and actually went into consulting from that training program. Subsequently, I spent 10 years at IBM, where I rose to become a global consulting partner. And really specializing in the travel and transportation industry, looking at large scale operational systems, reservations, some of the back office systems but also airport operations, reservations and things of that nature, we used to call the travel ribbon, right, which was the Holy Grail. You know, back in the mid 90s or so, ran a few big businesses at IBM went to Unisys where I had really my first big chance at being a global unit leader. And it was about that time with Unisys early in 2001, where I had the opportunity to prove myself as really a growth leader and a transformation. Turnaround expert. And I say that because the unit I was given was bleeding revenue, had high attrition had fallen out of favor in the marketplace. And the keys were handed to me and the message was, you know, you've got a couple of months, turn this thing around, fix the p&l fix what's ailing us in the marketplace and make us a better unit. And that allowed me to really You know, be entrepreneurial learned, allowed me to learn how to lead at scale, and to, to understand a lot of the market impulses that make a business acceptable and thrive. Right. And you know, from there, I had some other great experiences, I did the same thing, Oracle had a chance to turn around their entire global consulting business that was bleeding billions of dollars, and turn that around into something that within two years, became a big, profitable growing business once again, HP, I went in and rebuilt from the ashes, a business called HP technology consulting, which was a global technology consulting business, operating in over 150 countries wherever they sold, products or technology or services. And that was a fantastic experience. And then from there went on to run a big portion of Microsoft, the unit called Microsoft services, and that was fantastic. My primary responsibility was on the go to market and really fixing and turning around and growing that business putting structure into all the different types of roles and, and people that would wind up in the marketplace. Microsoft has a unique challenge and that they deal in the 10s of millions of customers and but got to work with many small businesses, midsize businesses, very large enterprises. And that was a very successful adventure. And, you know, once you have the chance to work in Microsoft, if you think about it, they have more people in one city, on one street corner than most companies have around the world. There is just like IBM, there isn't a home, or a building that doesn't have some type of Microsoft or IBM intellectual property or license. You know, on premises. So fantastic experience. My most recent five years I spent at HCL Technologies, and I have to say that was extremely rewarding. First time, I had an opportunity, at the most senior level of the company to lead and run a business and a company, one that was not headquartered in the United States. Okay, company was born and raised in India. And it gave me the opportunity part of my job was to number one, grow it number two, make it more of a multinational player, as opposed to just an Indian heritage provider of services. And, you know, in the five and a half years I was there, we literally doubled in size in terms of revenue went from five to 10 and a half billion of revenue. We doubled in size from employees 70,000, to 150,000. And, you know, we went from about 2829 countries to about 60 countries, and really revolutionized the not only the front lines, but the leadership ranks in terms of bringing diversity to the forefront gender diversity, different countries that were represented in the mix, and all walks of life that started to come into the leadership ranks. And I think that really helped fuel the growth of that company. So I am thrilled to be here. You know, I joined probably about two months ago, a little more than two months ago, I met Nigel, right at the right before the pandemic. And he and I had a lot of time during the pandemic, in really a stress free kind of setting. When we both weren't tending to the duties of all the things going on with the pandemic, we had a chance to sit back and talk about the nature and the history of publicist sapient really the great legacy, but the focus was on where's the company going over the next 10 years, right, and we were able to kind of craft and shape this whole dialogue and conversation around what I could do in terms of playing a role to lead and spark and catalyze and, and steer growth, at really an exponential clip for the company for the coming decade. And so here I am.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, and, I mean, obviously, an accomplished career journey and very fortunate to have you joining us at boot was to safian. Now, especially to, you know, Springboard us into whatever the future of digital business transformation looks like, following the pandemic. But I want to circle back to the very beginning of what you what you kind of started at the beginning of your journey. And then just quickly give the context of there's a reason I don't want to do I don't want to doing too much prep with these podcasts interviews. I like to get just enough from the interview guests to know where the conversation is gonna go. But I love to have a little bit of surprise so that way you can have moments just like this, because as you described, you know how Being your family coming from Poland, Russia being communist Poland, defectors, my family comes from communist Poland, they defected in at 89. After spending four years in a refugee camp outside of Rome landed here, literally the same year the Wall came down. So my family comes from a very similar background as yours, my dad was involved in like anti communism, propaganda rings and newsletters. Their heritage goes way back, way back to hear you say that and talk about the fact that it shaped your perspective around, you know, coming from the secure confines of Philly, and then the kind of suburbs there to then go back to a place where there was food cards, right? Yeah, no, just for me, I didn't get to experience that reality of Poland. But in the stories coming from my parents, my grandparents, it always helped shaped a level of thankfulness for whatever we had here, versus the challenges they had to undergo trying to make some sort of a living and survive and prosper within the confines of a communist control country. So it's just very exciting to hear you see that because now we have these this like natural synergy to kind of start off from but how have you carried that perspective? Through your career? How do you think it's shaped the way you approach problems in organizations even now?

Arthur Filip - So first of all, I'm just, I'm blown away. Yeah, it's rare to, you know, especially professionally to meet somebody who can understand that, or at least has parents and lineage that experience that same specific set of circumstances. And yeah, we'll have to compare notes offline. For sure. We're probably cousins, you know, from a remote village somewhere. So we'll compare DNA for this. But, you know, for me, I think it really was a very fundamental set of circumstances in that. You know, first of all, just on the American side growing up here, I didn't naturally fit in with all the other kids who had purely American parents, right? You know, my mother was from Philadelphia, but she was actually only second generation herself. But then my father didn't understand a lot of American culture or American sports. So, you know, while I was, it was strange to me, as a young child, you know, that he didn't know, for example, American football, that he might, you know, really European football or soccer, more so which wasn't as popular. It helped me understand that there were other things outside of an American style of life. But when I would go there and spend my time, I think, it gave me a different type of humility, and empathy around understanding that there are so many different cultures and perspectives, and human experiences, that don't add up to those that you grew up around that are important to understand and explore while we have this precious time on Earth, right? That's carried through my entire career. You know, the higher up you start going in your career, and the more scope and scale and responsibility take on, clearly the ability to still connect and understand the different human impulses, versus all of the data and the IQ that you're going to naturally have in a corporate setting more you can bounce out the EQ and the humanity. And know that there are many more ways of doing things than just the one prescribed way. But that has stuck with me and has been a tremendous, tremendous lesson. Yeah. And

Peter Szczerba - I mean, even if we kind of leapfrog to your experience, HCl, you talked about bringing diversity into the leadership ranks, and that having an accelerated impact on kind of the growth of that organization doubling in size. I mean, but that's a reflection of exactly what you just described, this idea of broadening and having a diverse perspective and knowing that there are experiences outside of what you have has a significant impact on how you conduct yourself and kind of the mindset you bring into the professional setting. So I mean, just maybe talk a little bit about that. Just we can we'll we'll double back. But you mentioned that introducing cultural diversity, introducing gender diversity into leadership ranks, was that something difficult for you to drive for a company that was already in another place of, of the world then then you heralded from?

Arthur Filip - Absolutely I think anytime that you have large groups of people that come from the same background or have done things the same way or have a real shared history, when new influences whether they're positive or negative get introduced, there's always a natural tendency to recoil and You know, to put the walls up and, you know, not unlike really any company, and it's certainly going to be a challenge within our own companies, we start to transform and grow and change things. But both HCl and then in other parts of my career is that, you know, as you start to connect and build trust, and then start to form a common vision, you know, when you strip away careers, and work and everything else, we're all here on this planet for hopefully 100 years, you know, give or take. And we have the ability to decide ourselves, you know, not just how we're going to spend those days in minutes and hours, but what kind of impact we're going to have, you know, in our personal lives and in our professional lives, and I think, when you start to have those conversations, start to form a common bond as to what you collectively stand for, right, and how to go about that and how to, you know, form a common umbrella, then it becomes much easier to start accepting new points of view and new types of people into the mission. And it's not too unlike our experience, here, we have this, you know, as we start to look ahead towards growth at public safety, we have this, it's unlike many companies, so this tremendous cadre of people that have been here for 20 plus years that have built, you know, every brick in nook and cranny of the company. And we absolutely have to honor that experience, but at the same time, recognize and blend in the people that have been here a year or less or five years or 1015 years, and find a way to get the best out of everyone's experience towards a common mission. So it's definitely been a part of my career. And I think helping people coalesce around the higher purpose is always a place for me to start when you're about to take on a growth journey or transformation or turnaround.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, and I love hearing that talked about within my own organization, considering we function in the space of consulting, we're always telling that to our clients, you know, coalescing around a North Star working towards those objectives, right and unifying behind them, knowing that we're taking our own advice. And doing that internally is obviously a very exciting thing. But I want to zoom in on something that you said the word impact. And, you know, that seems to be a trend throughout your career, every kind of transition and jump that you've made, you talked about going into fix or going into turnaround or going into bring back to life from the ashes you said that I think those are pretty powerful descriptors, is Was that something that you understood to be the right way to make decisions around jumps in your career early on that it is about following the opportunities for greatest impact? Not necessarily just where's the title going to be biggest? Or where's the money going to be biggest etc?

Arthur Filip - Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I was fortunate. Right after my IBM experience, IBM was, and many people that have spent time early in the career will tell you, it's almost like getting your Executive MBA. Yeah, you know, you, I mean, everything and not just how to consult and act with clients. But you understand, you know, certain disciplines and motions of how business works and how relationships work over time. And, you know, you even I always joke, I still have a closet full of blue suits. Back from my iPad. The only difference between the suits are, you know, was I up five pounds or down five pounds? Right, right. ISIS, right. But there was a great mentor I had who actually became a very good friend over many years, and he's now actually the the Chief Executive Officer of the firm called Heidrick and struggles. They're one of the largest recruiting firms in the world. And when I was a young partner at IBM, he was young partner at Heidrick. And he presented me with the opportunity to leave IBM and I, you know, it was a real risk for me, he came to me and said, Look, you have you have such a bright future at IBM you have, you know, it's the blue chip brand name back then. And you know, you're you're in the upper echelons, and you're one of the movers and shakers at a young age, hear, you know, great executive support and things like that. I'm going to present you with an opportunity that's completely risky. But it's going to give you a chance to really magnify your impact with really a company that has a lot of value in depth itself, but it's become a little bit you know, tarnished or the, you know, the brand was down at that time. So he, he pitched it as you have a chance to take a an organization that's been on a losing streak, and, you know, put them back into the winning contention, and that excited me, you know, helping a group of dedicated professionals and kind of bringing a brand back to life. It sparked an interest and You know, every every natural inclination, my body said you're crazy stay at IBM, it's a secure future. It's a, it's a brilliant path, it's going to be defined, you know, in a certain way. But I'm so thrilled that I took that risk, because it's helped shape a journey that there is no defined path. Right, but there's absolutely a unique skill that came out of it. You know, there aren't too many people around the world that have, you know, bed and, and built and rebuilt, you know, five, six $10 billion p&l And, and understand how to make big scale transformational change happen, and impact the marketplace. And that's been a cool thing to do throughout my career.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, I mean, I can only imagine that that has to be incredibly rewarding and satisfying. But I want to talk a little bit about how you assess that risk, you know, relatively early in your career, as you said, but you know, you already in a pretty significant leadership position at IBM as a partner, but you want you mentioned that this was kind of your first shot as a as a global union leader and the leader of growth. And I guess, when you were assessing that opportunity, you saw, obviously, there was risk involved. But also, this was a pretty big stretch for you, right? So that was part of where the risk came. So when you, when you sat there and you assessed, you know, you you evaluated your skill set, what you can bring to the table, what made you decide that you were going to be successful there, or that it was a risk that you were willing to take? Because of what you bring to the table? Like, how did you assess that, then that's a big leap to make,

Arthur Filip - You know, it's, I look back on that period of time and other changes that I've had in my career. You know, for me, you know, you always have different types of data and different types of external information, but it starts with your gut, it starts with those close to you. And, you know, I've been fortunate. You know, my, my closest advisor, she and I met, you know, back at university, many, many moons ago at Boston University, and we've been married for, let's see, 27 years, but together a little congrat longer than that. Thank you. And but, you know, she knows me well enough. And, and we've always been able to have real open discussions, she's been a real honest soundboard about saying, you know, go for or, you know, you're crazy to, you know, step in this direction. And, and then you have other advisors and mentors as well, that you, you know, learn to trust over time. And, you know, you have those conversations with but I think when it comes down to it, you know, we all have to kind of get philosophical, again, you have a certain amount of time, in your career, and it goes fast, you know, I still remember being a young up and comer, and then all of a sudden, you wake up one day, and now you're not the young up and comer. Maybe you're the the older up and comer, right? Yes. But, you know, you realize, and then you start having mentors and friends that are now retiring, or 10 years retired, and it's hard to believe, right? So with the limited amount of time that goes very quickly. You know, the question is, how can you keep moving forward? How can you keep progressing and growing, because I do have a belief, and I've seen it time and time again, very few people will be satisfied with stagnation. But, you know, you can only go through so many weeks and months, or quarters and cycles of a business, and continually do the same thing over and over again. And I think the brilliant thing about our industry, in particular, you know, I'd sum it up as professional services, which has consulting and, and it has technology and business and outsourcing and managed services, all kinds of advisory services and solutions. But if you're in our particular field in industry, there are always going to be incredible chances to push yourself to grow, and fundamentally have an impact on society, because we are the one industry and business that while we may be, you know, a smaller percent of the overall global GDP, we impact every single facet of society, of business of life, you know, of government of the economy, either through our technology or our dose of medicine on how to do your business better, right. So there are, to me, this is the most exciting place to be in a place that you can push yourself and I think I started to understand that early on, which is we can be doctors, to many different businesses. So it's fun to have new it's, it's well let me tell you something. So my family are doctors, right, other sisters. And they never understood what I actually do for a living. Right. You know, I think early on my father thought that Like I worked at Best Buy selling PCs, you know? Yeah. But the way I explained it to him one day was that our industry is similar to being a physician, you know, our patients, you know, happen to be companies and whether they're sick, or we're putting them on preventative, long term care, our medicine happens to be great new ways of doing things in terms of business process, or strategies and technology. That's the medicine that we, you know, provide to keep people healthy, or to get them healthy. So I think you started to understand that. And if people adopt that mindset, they realize they can have a tremendous impact.

Peter Szczerba  - Well, it's funny, you say that another strange, coincidental synergy, but even my father works in the medical field as a technologist in a dialysis unit, and he works there and very similar situation, you know, he understands but doesn't understand necessarily what it is that we do. And I like to say that, you know, we're as consulting, we're professional thinkers, we're professional problem solvers. But I love the analogy of being doctors who are in our patients, our clients in these businesses. And I would go a step further and say, Well, you know, over and above being a doctor, we're also, you know, athletic trainers. And we're not just trying to get them healthy, but actually have them perform at a higher level at this point, right. And that's where this whole idea of digital business transformation plays in. And I am 100% agree, and I was actually going to ask you, you know, you've had opportunities to work both at pure consulting organizations, as well as organizations that are built on their technology products. And I have to imagine that being at a company whose primary product is human capital, and then brainpower and human capability versus, you know, an intersection of people who can help stand up ultimately, the product, that is technology, there has to be some difference there. And have you found that, you know, they I imagine they present different challenges that you've had to overcome, do they? Do they lend themselves well to the other, have you kind of what's your experience been going back and forth.

Arthur Filip - So it's remarkable how similar the businesses are, but how different you know, professionals on both sides of the house believe that the business models really are a great example. One of one of the teams of publicist sapient, asked me to help them with a particular pursuit and a large scale bid at a very established, you know, North American manufacturer in the last couple of weeks. And it turns out the the competition, you know, we're coming in with very much a strategy and consulting and full scale digital transformation type of approach. And our competitor, the other finalist, happens to be one of the companies that's more in the, you know, large scale technology outsourcing arena, and they were coming in with a pure software solution, right. And at the same, you know, I think one of the big takeaways was, we each have a different approach, they were both going after the same problem, it's really up to the client to choose which way they feel is best based on their needs. You know, what I find is that we often segment ourselves too deeply, in comparing ourselves to a certain set of peer competitors, when our actual peer competition is, is quite a bit wider in the professional services arena. And there are a lot of great things we can learn from peers that we wouldn't even think are our natural peers. You know, how to line up in the marketplace, how to surround clients, how to drive great client satisfaction, how to bring the best of a number of different disciplines to the table, human capital, technology oriented, new business ventures and models, whatever it might be. So one of my big takeaways is, is probably less worth focusing time one, you know, we fit into this segment in this segment only, but to recognize we have a wide open field, there'll be new entrants, tomorrow, there will be people merging. So it's going to constantly change. And we have to keep our head on the swivel.

Peter Szczerba - No, I think that makes total sense. I want to pivot a little bit to something that you said in a conversation we had in one of our earlier conversations, that really has stuck with me. And that's that each time you step into an organization, especially in roles centered around growth, you like to assess the ambition of individuals across the organization, particularly at the leadership level. And I think that this idea of trying to gauge the ambition of people is really interesting. And I want you to talk a little bit about how you do that because I think it's such an important thing to consider when you're trying to drive transformation, whether it's with our clients or internally. The idea that We need people who are ambitious and hungry to drive that change to be at the center of it makes total sense. But I've never heard anyone articulate that before. And when I step into an organization, I'm here to assess who is ambitious, who has that ambition, that hunger, I'd love to hear kind of your process for that.

Arthur Filip - Yeah, it's funny. My process is pretty simple. It's lots and lots of conversations. It's, you know, I wish it was more scientific than that. But I've always felt that, when you look at, you know, the culture is a funny word, because it means so many things, and it means nothing at the same time. But when you look at the heartbeat, in the spirit of a company, you can kind of start to detect patterns as you talk to 510 20 100 200 people, common words that are used common ways of thinking common ways of feeling and looking at the market, or looking at how things are delivered or put together or dealt with. And, you know, to me, one of the kind of things that cuts across all of that is, what's the ambition level? What's the desire, the dreams collectively, of the group? How far do they want to go? You know, is there a sense of satisfaction with, Hey, we're, we're good with where we are today. And, you know, we're okay, incrementally adding a thing here, or adding some dollars there, adding a country or whatever it might be? Or is there a, you know, on the other end of the spectrum, is there somewhat of a relentless path that the team has collectively focused on. And what that does do is it helps you understand the capacity, and the willingness to change the speed and the rate. And then ultimately, that that collective ambition can also dictate how big you can become and how much impact you can have. I've met very few people in this world that wouldn't say that they want to have an impact. And, again, impact is wide open work. But make a difference while you're, you know, in your job in your role in your career in your company. Now, the question is how much of an impact people want to have? Do they want to leave a mark on this world? Do they want to change things? I believe, you know, as I look at publicist sapient, that we have all of the capability and capacity to affect change through digital transformation, at a very high level, very high scale across many industries, governments, elements of society. What holds us back today is scope and scale and some of the execution things that we're going to unleash, yet allow us to apply even more people to the mix. And you know, quite frankly, in the process, it'll be fun creating jobs and, and bringing new people into the industry that get to practice the art and science of impact and ambition, through what we do as a business.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, I'm very excited to see a lot of that come to life, especially as it unfolds in these, these kind of early stages where it's going to be kind of disruptive, and and people get excited about the change. I want to touch on another thing that we talked about early on, it's shared passion around sports. And you know, I'm involved in a nonprofit, around basketball, but you mentioned that you actually coached youth football for a number of years. And I'd love to hear, you know, doing something like that, in parallel to having a leadership role, you know, senior leadership role across large organizations, did you find that that actually bled into your approach is being a leader, you know, in the corporate world while having to lead you know, youth really, but in the sports world

Arthur Filip - 100% 100%. So, it's funny, I look back on that period of time with with so many joys, but also mixed feelings. I've always been a tremendous American football fan, a really a fan of a lot of sports and workout vigorously every day and still participate in a lot of sports where I can, I say, conflicting, because American football also is probably not the safest sport to put young guys in. And it's really come to light in the last number of years. But probably a good 10 years right up until that point. It was a tremendous vehicle starting out with coaching one team and eventually six teams and, you know, forming a community organization that had you know, 300 plus parents involved 1000 Plus kids involved, between cheerleaders and football players and different ancillary sports basketball camp was an offshoot of that. But it was a great community organization that allowed us to embrace children and to be, you know, to create great role models, especially for kids that didn't have the opportunity to have great role models in their life, to provide structure and to provide some discipline but also provide fun and enjoyment and extra size and all of the good things you get out of youth sports. And it certainly translates into the professional world, I think, you know, one of the great qualities of football or basketball or other sports, is that there is there is a process, there is some structure, but there's, there's both science and art. So there's, there's method, their structure, there's a system. But then when you get out on the field, and you're actually doing things, it's a lot of split second reactions, and muscle memory and creativity to make things happen. And I think it's a great learning process, not only as a young person, but also later on in the business world. You know, at the end of the day, every business is competing against another business, right? And people tend to lose sight of that, you know, especially they get internally focused, no matter what industry, your career, right. And they forget that there are other people out there, you know, that are going after the same client that would love to take the business away, perhaps put you out of business or put you out of work, and we shouldn't ignore those threats, we should be lined up in a professional way that acknowledges we have to go compete every day and be asked to perform.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, I love that in the idea of preemptively always planning to, you know, for lack of a better word, combat that and compete against it, I think absolutely makes sense. And the idea of coaching or playing sports and having that sort of passion or involvement or initiative that you're part of on the side that can be seen as relatively distinct from what you're doing in the professional world. But ultimately, that diversity of experience bleeding in and affecting your approach, as a professional, do you think that something that's young professionals early in their career or even mid level mid midway through their career, maybe in later stages should always aspire to have something that is, you know, very different from what they do day in day out? To do it over and above what they do in the workplace to help drive that diversity experience and diversify their thought and and see where the accelerative benefits are? Oh, my gosh,

Arthur Filip - Yes. It's, I listen, and this has been a challenge. I was fortunate enough to have that as an outside interest. Because, you know, especially as you are younger, in your career, I've always been a person that works intense hours, there are many years in my career where I've traveled a million miles a year, you know, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little bit less. But, you know, I've always had a very rigorous 24 by seven, you know, cycle in terms of the way I operate. And part of it's been global roles. And part of it's been my own drive, you know, competitiveness, and, but at the same time, it takes a toll on having time to think about things outside of work. And you know, your first thing, your first responsibility is always your family. Right? So every ounce of time was spent with my family when I wasn't working. I think it's important, though, to have other interests to be well found that I think the pandemic specifically has taught people, that life is not all about work, right? Yeah, there's a lot more to life. I mean, we see all kinds of things happening in the marketplace today. And, you know, people talk about the great resignation. And like people that are just leaving industry, period, I think they'll eventually be back. But there is something to be said about the fact that people are way too caught up in the grind of work, the seriousness of their career, kind of the all or nothing mentality, and it's just not worth it. You know, it's not to sound morbid, but nobody's Tombstone is ever gonna say, worked at such and such company. Right, that there really is something to be said for in life, having as many different experiences that are new and uplifting, you know, to help one connect to the overall planet and to society. And, you know, again, so many people have gotten caught up in it's work, work work. Let me climb the ladder. Let me get ahead. Let me stay engaged with what's going on, you know, the palace intrigue of work for any hours that I'm not involved in indirect client work or, you know, normal responsibilities. And the reality is, is I think, again, the pandemic one other thing that it's taught us is that it's okay to seek freedom from the expectations that have been placed on all of us. And, you know, you think back to the beginning of the pandemic, many people were picking up all kinds of new hobbies and skills and doing things that they didn't have a chance to do before and I hoped that sense of spirit and learning stays with people, no matter what they choose to do in their careers. You know, the one thing that I go back to my early childhood that I learned was, you know, again, there are so many different ways of living, and that society can be conducted in so many different cultures and backgrounds. For me, one of my passions is in this lifetime to see as much of this planet and as many different types of people to understand their perspectives and their histories and, and their reason for being and their why as possible. And I hope that, you know, as people look at work life balance, which has always been a struggle that, you know, again, people can drop some of the expectations that have been placed on them from such a probably young age and throughout their career, and really dig into learning the art and science of learning itself. Because I think that journey in that ambition, and that Quest to Learn More, See More, do more, feel more, is going to give people all kinds of unlimited opportunities and potentials for their own growth in the near future and beyond.

Peter Szczerba - I think that that is going to resonate immensely with people all walks of life in all different levels of their career stages in their career. And I think it's a really great place to leave off. And Arthur, it's been such a fantastic conversation. I think there's so many learnings to pull out of this one. I'm really excited to have people listen to it, and and really just get to experience it. I appreciate your time. And I look forward to chatting again in a couple months when you're a little deeper into your tenure here at Google sapient. We see all the great things that are coming out of the transformative at growth strategies you brought to the table.

Arthur Filip - Absolutely. Peter, thank you for everything you do. And it's been a real pleasure speaking to you today.