OYP Episode 33: Devon Vipond

Devon Vipond, Director of Research & Insight at We Are Social and Instructor at Miami Ad School, tells us about the accelerated growth experienced when working abroad, the value of merchandising your wins, and the importance of maintaining a diverse professional network.

Interview

Peter Szczerba - Welcome back to the Own Your Potential Podcast, where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe, about how they've taken control of their career growth and lessons on how you can too. I'm Peter Szczerba, and today I have the extreme pleasure of sitting down with Devon Vipond, Director of Research and Insight at We are Social, and Instructor at Miami Ad School. Devon, very excited to have you on the podcast today. I've been looking forward to this conversation. Why don't we just jump right in? Do you mind just kicking us off by taking us through your career journey up until this point?

Devon Vipond - Great. Well, I am currently leading research and insight for We Are Social Canada, which is a global socially led creative agency. And in this function, I have two roles. One is to use qualitative and quantitative research methods to unlock insights that will drive our creative ideation. And the second part of my role is to look at efficacy and make sure that our work works. So that means setting up our clients for success, making sure that the programs will have impact and actually measuring them when we've been leaving those programs. But my my career has really evolved in the pursuit of trying to understand people on the internet, essentially how audiences think and act and what their motivations are, and how brands can help meet them in the middle and help fulfill some of their goals. And so my career really evolved in the pursuit of understanding people on the internet, I wanted to understand how audiences think, feel and act, and how brands can help them meet some of their goals. I started my career with a journalism and psychology degree. And I was looking for context from people to understand the news of the day. But then I moved into marketing, communications, and started doing things like social listening to understand users and audiences, and really getting those insights to help brands position themselves and communicate with themselves with those people. And so I moved abroad, I ended up in the UK. And through this sort of social focus, I ended up picking up search marketing skills, which meant I was moving from not only looking at what people were saying and doing online, but also how they were seeking information before they even connected with brands. So when I came back to Canada, I gained a wealth of experience that involved scaling to bigger brands, brands, like Blackberry Global, Unilever, buy Best Buy, I moved to Canada. And I ended up working in a digital strategy role, which brought together all of that experience, and helped me see, right from the planning to the execution of the creative strategy, how those sort of insights and audiences all come together with brand. And so where I am now is, is bringing together that sort of passion for you know, making sure that, that when audiences see a communication from a brand that that's going to bring value to their lives.

Peter Szczerba - I love hearing career journeys like that, just because, especially in the in the data world, I think the data field is so broad and so diverse in terms of what you could do, and the roles you can play within it. You know, I have a data background as well. But we do, you know, overlapping things, but also fundamentally different things. And similar to you then and I also didn't start in like a highly technical, you know, data driven educational background, I had a Bachelor's in science. And similarly, you know, you did journalism and psychology. And I'm curious, like, as you worked your way into this space of social listening, SEO, and then into research and insights and kind of like data science, what did you do to pick up like the deep technical skills that were required to be successful in those roles that you didn't come from naturally, like you came from very soft skill or kind of non kind of STEM skill based background? So how did you evolve in that space? What did you do to excel there?

Devon Vipond - For me, it's really been about geeking out completely going deep on these things, you know, reading everything I can. But importantly, I've had the fortune of being in global agencies throughout the course of my career, where I've had access to amazing talent. And so it was always really important for me to find the smartest people in the room or the smartest people in the network that I could learn from that I could not only have in kickoff something for me Show me how to do something, but that I could lean on when I needed to gut check or show a piece of work before you know I went in ahead to the client.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, I that resonated with me a lot. And I think ensuring that you're working with kind of like an open environment and supportive environment whatever the role is where you can leverage collaborative efforts like that to learn grow, ensure quality of the work, I think is something I've leaned heavily on in my career as well. That makes a ton of sense in terms of advancing one skill set. I'm curious, you talk a little bit about you spend some time abroad and that that had a really accelerative effect on your career growth. Talk a little bit more about that, because I think that's something that I haven't had touched a lot on yet and past conversations on the podcast. And I think it's really important.

Devon Vipond - Yeah, I think being abroad was really interesting. For both personal and professional reasons. Personally, I think that bleeds so much into professional life, you're you're experiencing new cultures, new, new ways of doing things, everything is new, it's just investing not only in you're enriching your life when you're abroad, but also in giving you new ways of thinking, which bleeds into your professional life professionally. When I was abroad, I met people from all different markets, different backgrounds. And it meant as well, being a Canadian, for example, I was in the UK, and meant going from being in what's often considered a test market might have smaller budgets than you'd see in the US to being a place where it really was the market that led the thinking for Europe, Middle East and Africa. So there was often sort of a hub and spoke model for the way that creative ideation was was done. It all the sudden, that meant that I could be at the table when we're building out campaigns that would be amplified across the region, rather than necessarily just being a spoke for another global campaign adapted into Canada.

Peter Szczerba - I'm curious to as when you were making the decision to go abroad, were you conscious of this type of potential impact that could have on your career development? Or was it something that now in retrospect, as you reflect, you realize how important it was.

Devon Vipond - So I didn't realize at the time the impact that what moving abroad was going to do for me, it was really for for personal reasons that I moved, I knew that it would teach me things I would see the world, I definitely traveled a lot. But I didn't realize the extent to which that exposure to new ideas would really make me better as a professional.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, I think I think that's often the experience. But I love the fact that we're able to share these stories now. So maybe someone mulling over the similar decision could maybe make it more consciously. But you know, for me personally, those types of stretch experiences that put you outside of your comfort bubble and your comfort zone, often do a lot to build confidence. Tell me a little bit about maybe the impact that that had on your confidence. And then as you also progressed from, you know, a very different background to where you inevitably ended up. What role did confidence play in that kind of journey and the various steps that you took along that?

Devon Vipond - Yeah, I think when when thinking about confidence, you often hear this expression, fake it until you make it. And I struggled with with building confidence and with demonstrating confidence for a long time in my career. And I've eventually realized that it's something that for me to feel confident, I need to know that I'm bringing value to the table. And it means that I need to know when it's okay to say that I don't know something, but that I'm really going to be able to figure out the solution. And so a lot of what my career has been has been investing in knowing as much as I can so that I have different methodologies, different approaches to get the answer for my clients, so that they rely on me for being someone that they can get answer from even if I don't happen immediately. So confidence is is something that, you know, being really committed has helped me demonstrate,

Peter Szczerba - I like how subversive that is, because I think the average person would say fake it till you make it is certainly like a way to accelerate their growth or push themselves to develop new skills with the idea of simply being prepared and committing to learning in advance, I think is as effective and likely a little bit less stressful. So I'm curious. How did you when you assessed the types of skills along the way that you needed to pick up? Were you looking at future potential client work where you were looking at just larger industry trends? Was it based on passion and interest? How are you making those decisions? Well, factors were you weighing as you picked up skills,

Devon Vipond - I think I was never looking at it from a point of view of hockey stick career growth. I mean, being in an agency it is you can have a very linear path up the chain. But for me, I almost looked at wanting to be a digital strategist who understood the internet and how people operate on it holistically. I almost liken it to the way a doctor before they specialize in their, their their craft. They want to understand the body completely. And so as a digital strategist, I wanted to get a perspective from all the different types of media you find online social media, paid media, the impact of earned media so I actually followed almost this My path has really been trying to understand elements of all of those pieces. And so I've actually had a really unique experience. And having come from the journalism world, having gone into social media really started to understand digital site side analytics, search, dabbling, and paid social and understanding the paid media, I've really kind of looked at all different layers of the internet so that I can help clients kind of bring together all those different connections and help them plan a campaign holistically.

Peter Szczerba - So I am really interested by that response, because I think it starts to dive into this idea of being a generalist versus a specialist. So you talked about wanting to have a well rounded perspective as you work towards being kind of an impactful digital strategist and having to touch these different areas. So you have a holistic view, that very much is a generalist approach. But you do have to specialize along the way. And I'm curious, how did you assess from one skill or one kind of capability area within data to another? How deep was deep enough as you kind of develop the skill set? And when did you realize, okay, now it's time for me to start to hone another complimentary knowledge area or skill set,

Devon Vipond - I think I always tried to fill in the gaps. And so what I mean by that is, there was a need, when I, when I was abroad, it was there was need for someone to have an understanding of search marketing, so that they could do things like give recommendations on what language to use on a website or in social copy, or understand what the needs dates are of an audience so that the brand can connect with them before they even know about the brand. So that meant I was I pursued search marketing as a specialism because nobody else did. But it also ended up being this this toolkit really, that I've applied across multiple different clients, even if they weren't specifically seeking search counsel is something that was relevant for social, for example. In other areas, I ended up working within a context where I was on a digital strategy stream as well as a paid social stream. And that was driven because I saw the way that things were going organic social was fading out, we knew that there was an increased dependency on paid social, for example. And so it was driven by need really need states of clients of the environments that was working in and strongly strongly driven by passion on my part, I have a really huge thirst for for continually learning. And so that meant I got to flex my brainpower.

Peter Szczerba - Very cool. And this kind of brings me to this idea of, you know, building a career around resume versus around interest. And also the idea of how do you define, you know, success for your career? So, it sounds like, you're filling need need states, you're addressing gaps, you're also pursuing this well rounded knowledge base and skill set, but you're following passion and interest? And so I guess, did you have a clear definition of career success at the time? Is it something that you've been consciously working towards as a result? And, you know, did that career success get defined around, you know, pursuit of interest? Or was there also some bad resume building in there as well? or How did you prioritize those?

Devon Vipond - Well, I, of course always want to be marketable to prospective employers. But for me a large part of what's driven the way I've plotted out my career is really interest, I need to feel like I'm learning all the time to be able to be kind of happy in the environment time in, I think the other thing is, is, is I just went with what was interesting, and I continue to do that, a lot of the time, what's interesting is what's new or what's emerging. And so, you know, that I've also attempted to, to make sure that I'm always on top of things so that I'm not only sharp, but I can be sharp on behalf of my clients.

Peter Szczerba - Absolutely. I find that very interesting. I want to pivot to another topic, just because data person to data person, I find that, you know, this idea of self advocacy, which is obviously a common topic for this podcast, and kind of the subject matter area that we'd like to talk about. But, you know, I find that largely data people or data driven people maybe have a little bit of a different approach to advocating for themselves and the impact they have, then maybe the the traditional bravado of someone in business development or in sales or, you know, Client Services type role. I'm curious, what's your approach? Did it come naturally to you? Have you found your own kind of niche way of doing it, you've found success and I want to hear a little bit about that.

Devon Vipond - Yeah, I totally agree. I think I think when you see people that are a bit more in sort of the the scientific element of marketing, you can, you can often see a little bit more introversion and I completely identify with that. I've often felt uncomfortable with with the idea of cheerleading too loudly for myself. So the way I've learned to approach self advocacy is really letting the learnings in the work I've done be a marketable asset in itself. I've heard the expression, merchandise your wins. And what that really has has meant for me is that when I've completed a program, or even if I've just seen a really great article, or a stat or data point, I'd like to package that up and deliver it to either account teams or clients, whoever it is, in a way that's going to really suit the way that they want to hear that information. And so by that, I mean, oftentimes, it's not going to be helpful to them, if you package it up in a huge long email and, and kind of send it off. I've worked hard to make sure that I'm tailoring information I'm sharing with people, and making sure that it's relevant for them. And in doing so it's not necessarily cheerleading for myself, but it's associating me and my brand with knowledge and value.

Peter Szczerba - That's so, so interesting, first of all, and second, I love that anecdote, this idea of merchandising your wins, I haven't heard that before, I think it's very much of, you know, a parallel to the idea of, you know, productizing, an IP or, or an approach or something, especially in client facing work, like managed services, or otherwise, kind of like what we're in this idea of defining approach to something or a successful way of addressing a gap or a problem and then trying to productize and be able to sell it elsewhere. But then applying that similar sort of approach to building a case study around the work you do, or the impact that you've had. It's very much less Me, me, me and more. Look, this was achieved, this is how you could do it elsewhere. And then you're associated with that success. I like that a lot. I really like the way you frame that. I'm curious, though, you know, you're further in your career you're in, you know, approaching leadership positions. And have you found yourself being more comfortable with being able to do a bit of that cheerleading for yourself? Or, I guess also now that I would imagine you're probably doing a little bit of cheerleading for others on your team? Have you found comfort in that?

Devon Vipond - I've always found it easier to cheerlead for other people than I have for myself. But you do raise a great point. I mean, as you get further along in your career, people want to hear more from you. And so a large part of what my sort of personal professional advocacy has been has been actually getting my thoughts and ideas out there often involving, showcasing how I came to be where I am. And so a lot of my advocacy has actually become very digital focused in the sense that, you know, I'm more active on LinkedIn, I'm doing more teaching, I'm, I'm writing more articles. So I'm engaged with this, this community online more, and it's meant having to really show up and explain who I am and where I've come from. And, and that in itself is cheerleading really.

Peter Szczerba - I'm curious about that, because that's obviously a more common practice, especially over the last year and a bit of, you know, global pandemia and having to figure out this remote digital world and a new communication channels of your impact. So you talk about LinkedIn and, you know, publishing in digital forms and have curating the conversation in that sort of medium. I'm curious, do you have a specific objective around that? Because I think that it could be easy to overwhelm yourself with trying to place your perspective or your your story in too many places without clearly knowing what you're trying to achieve? And I'm curious, do you have like a specific objective around around the kind of efforts you're putting towards those types of activities?

Devon Vipond - Well, I guess I would go back to content strategy. And I think there's something to this idea of atomizing your content, when you make an asset, or you make an idea, it's really kind of sharing it out in digestible formats. And so for me, a large part of what I've done on LinkedIn, and even when I'm, alternately, if I've written a blog post, I'm then sharing that out on social, for example. My objective is typically just to let it travel further and kind of to juice it as an asset and to make sure that when I am sharing it, it's in the right place to people who are going to get some value out of it.

Peter Szczerba - Very cool. Very cool. And I mean, it certainly wouldn't do any harm. You know, whenever you're looking at the next step or next chapter in your career journey to have, you know, a portfolio of commentary on these highly relevant spaces. I'm sure that that's paid its dividends for you as well.

Devon Vipond - Well, it's funny, the funny thing about the internet and in social media is it's all it's all real estate that we're renting. Throughout the course of my career, I've done a lot of blogging, and I've seen a lot of websites change after I've done that, so it's kind of, it's contributing to my need to continually hustle All of my IP out there is, is still accessible.

Peter Szczerba - Even that I love the word you use hustle, I think that really resonates with me as well as that the hustle never stops you, you know, every time you ascend the next step in your career, you're pursuing a more senior leadership role or a new challenge, or whatever the case is, eventually you find comfort there, and then it's around hustling for that next thing, do you find that that's been a consistent through line in your career to this point, that that hustle is kind of ever present, I think that's sometimes, You know, people don't realize that is that never really stops.

Devon Vipond - One of the interesting things about about hustle and and having been abroad is that I've been really amazed how my network has continually helped me. And it doesn't have to be people who know, anyone that I'm that I'm, it's in the environment where I may be applying for a role or where I'm trying to move towards. A lot of my hustle is really just been having a really great group of diverse voices in in my network who can help give me perspective and help push me and my thinking forward. So hustle for me has has really kind of just been keeping in touch with people and, and being willing to reach out to people who can help me out.

Peter Szczerba - I want to build on that a little bit, actually. Because obviously mentorship is something that's super core to owning your potential and kind of unlocking next steps in your career. You talked about having a diverse network of people that you can tap into, have you ever had kind of one persistent voice that you've been able to lean on and and for perspective and guidance in the form of like a formal mentor? And if you did, is that something you've pursued? Is it something that happened organically, like, tell us a little bit about that

Devon Vipond - I've only recently in the past few years actually had a consistent mentor. And it's somebody who came into the environment where I'm where I'm currently working. And I just saw them and immediately went to their office and struck up a conversation and basically fan girls, to the point where, you know, I ended up putting together kind of regular meetings with them. And we were able to work together between two different agencies. And that has been something I've sought my entire career. You know, there's certainly people that I will speak with once in a while, but she's been the most consistent mentor for me. And I've, I would encourage anybody to kind of take that approach. Don't be shy about asking someone if they're willing to spend some time with you.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And it's a sentiment I like to hammer home all the time is, you know, worst thing that can happen is they say no, but you can unlock a whole bunch of value just from from putting yourself out there and asking, and I, I agree with that wholeheartedly. I want to just circle back to something we talked about very early on in this conversation. But this idea of this background in journalism and psychology, and it being fundamentally different than you know, the spaces that you ended up in, do you find that that sort of diversity of education and practice is valuable? I personally found that it is. And it's something that served me really well and helped me attack problems in very different ways. I'm curious if that same sentiment is reflected by you and others?

Devon Vipond - Yeah, I think it's interesting, when you kind of look at the left brain, right brain approach you have to have when you're in a planning rule, you know, you need to be able to understand data, and you need to be able to interpret it. So coming from more of a social sciences background has meant that the interpretation part of it the, you know, the creativity of thought that you need, sometimes when you're looking at data and trying to build a story out of it, I've leaned on that heavily. And I've seen in some circumstances where people might not have as much of that experience where they might struggle to look beyond a number and you start to build out a narrative. So that, you know, that's one way it's helped me. And I think the other way it's helped me is that having come from journalism, which is effectively a form of ethnography, that's meant that I have had already had to build up some of the fundamentals around, you know, relationship management and account management that you might find in an agency setting. So it's helped me really, you know, figure out how to work with people interpersonally and ask the right questions and, you know, know how to kind of structure an interview or, or, you know, if it's, whether, whether that's me asking questions for the purposes of sort of, you know, gleaning information for our project, or, in the case of journalism, interviewing someone for the new story of the day. Yeah,

Peter Szczerba - That resonates with me a lot. And I, I love the idea of drawing from a diverse background or diverse, you know, experiences or education to influence how you approach things like even as you describe that I'm sure that that really gives you a leg up in how you approach you know, stakeholder interviews to extract the the answers and value you need to shape  project or a roadmap or? or whatever the case is, I imagine that that is invaluable in those types of activities.

Devon Vipond 

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Peter Szczerba - So I want to, you know, just kind of touch on one last idea. And I'm curious what your approach is, or if you are consciously kind of shaping this, but do you feel like you have a brand that you are actively, I guess, proactively shaping and ensuring to maintain or course correct for if you start to see somebody perceiving you, in a way that is not consistent with what you want your brand to be?

Devon Vipond - I would say yes, and no, I would say my personal brand is always evolving, there's certain facets to it, that won't change the first being a commitment to to knowledge and to expertise. The second being some degree of quirkiness, because I bring a little bit of a, I was thinking about, you know, what my three C's of my personal brand would be, you know, when I was thinking composed, committed, and Collins, Collins being Phil Collins, and fangirl, Boomeresque quirky quality that I like to bring to my workplace. So those things are not going to change for me. You know, I'm always going to be sort of committed to learning and, and just a little bit quirky while I'm doing it. But I think, you know, an important part of the evolution of my career and evolution of my personal brand is letting sort of external influence shape me and helped me evolve. And so I think I'm always going to be working on what my personal brand is.

Peter Szczerba – I love the authenticity to kind of who you are, and bringing that kind of into the workplace. I think it's so important and it just, it makes the workplace feel so much more natural. So I love hearing that. Devon does and I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us. This has been fantastic. I've really enjoyed it and I look forward to connecting again and checking in on how things are going down the line.

Devon Vipond - Thanks, Peter.