OYP Episode 32: Kristen Groh

Kristen Groh, Group Vice President, Managing Partner and North American Consumer Products Lead at Publicis Sapient, tells us about about the power of leaning into curiosity, being a hand raiser, and the value of focusing on solving problems.

Interview

 Peter Szczerba - Welcome back to the Own Your Potential Podcast, where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe about how they've controlled their career growth and lessons on how you can to. I'm Peter Szczerba, today, I'm talking to Kristen Groh, Group Vice President and North American Consumer Goods Portfolio Lead at Publicis Sapient. Really excited to be able to sit down and have a conversation with you today. Thanks for joining us, why don't we just jump right in? Can you tell us a little bit about your career journey so far?

Kristen Groh - Great. Yeah, happy to be here. So my current role at Publicis Sapient is the portfolio lead for consumer products in North America. But to kind of walk you up to how I got there, I'm going to start way back at the beginning, I actually started my career as a graphic designer. But the industry at the time was really tough. And to be perfectly frank, I probably didn't have the talent to really play in that area. So I took a role at a military defense contractor of all places as a designer and kind of being the youngest by far that organization, I was kind of tagged as the one to lead digital, which was just new and up and coming. This is in the late 90s. And my boss really invested a lot in my learning and development. And in that role, I began to kind of dabble in writing code and doing animation. Of course, this was all for CD ROM at the time. And then the the.com bubble really started to take off. And so I went out on my own. And I landed my first job as a developer, actually, at a design agency. And there, I quickly discovered that designers, you know, kind of traditional print designers and developers, you know, these kids coming out of school with c++, computer science degrees, really didn't know how to talk to each other. But I had just enough experience on both sides that I could really help bridge that gap. And so, you know, from there, I kind of became Not just that, that role that that set between the two disciplines, but also became that client facing person, the one who could actually really talk about digital and web and what that meant for their business. And early on, actually kind of launched our information architecture and content strategy practices within that agency, and just had a lot of, you know, early exposure to really interesting things that were popping up during the the.com bubble, for example, actually worked on the branding for Bluetooth, which is a household name now. And this actually, you know, it's kind of really evolved. I moved on to another design agency, where we focused a lot on creating annual reports and corporate communications for companies like IBM and GE, p&g. So you know, there, I was working at the highest level of these organizations. And it was an interesting role, because I was really able to kind of understand how the business world worked and how these businesses ran. And, you know, kind of the importance of corporate corporate culture, things like that. And, you know, again, some really interesting opportunities, like helping IBM articulate what cloud computing was to the market, way back in the early days of cloud. And in during that time, I held many different roles. I was I came in as an account director, and then evolved into a digital strategist, I was a brand strategist, I was operations lead, just kind of wore many hats, because it was a smaller agency. And there I was able to kind of evolve to what I found interesting and fill in the gaps within the company, based on where I saw opportunity. So it was a nice, very entrepreneurial environment to grow up and, and working in small companies like that really allowed me to be flexible. But then, at some point, I kind of got to the point where I felt like I was outgrowing the small companies and I wanted to spread my wings a bit and I moved on to one of the biggest ad agencies in the world and started my path on CPG knowledge and expertise. And you know, there I was actually working on full integrated marketing and advertising campaigns, everything from you know, shopper marketing to above the line, and of course, always having a toe into digital. But after a while I felt you know, that dropped back to really the core of digital and wanting to get back to what that really meant the value of kind of being so close to consumers through data and experience. And so I moved over to Razorfish Which is now sapient. And I've been here for almost six years evolving into my my role in leading the CPG category.

Peter Szczerba - That's a really interesting and exciting journey, I want to touch on a couple of things. Because as you you walk me through it, and he talked about starting as a graphic designer moving into the, you know, the digital space, really transitioning to being a developer than playing a hybrid role across the two working as account director, strategy. brand strategy, I think what I'm really curious about is, as you made these transitions from kind of one discipline to another, were you always consciously doing it knowing that they were building towards something greater? Or you? What were the motivating factors at the time? Where were they based on where you saw the industry going, and you want to stay attractive and competitive as kind of a professional? I'm just curious, what what was the decision making process around each of those transitions over time?

Kristen Groh - Yeah, that's, I wish I could say I was very disciplined and planned out about it. But to be honest, I, you know, I just kind of was overly curious about everything. And as opportunities arose within the context of the world I was working, I would just kind of raise my hand and say, Oh, I want to do that, can I get involved in that. And because I worked in these smaller companies, I was able to do that, you know, I just kind of presented myself as somebody who was interested and was given the opportunity to go after the things that I wanted to do. And so, you know, just really kind of being proactive and looking for opportunities, not just kind of sitting back and saying, well, this is my job. So I'm just gonna do this.

Peter Szczerba - So that's, that's really interesting, as well. And I think that bridges nicely into kind of the first question I wanted to ask because you said, you presented yourself as somebody who's interested and wanting to do more and learn more and experience these things. And then I'm curious, you know, was that one of your strategies for self advocating about your impact and where you wanted your career trajectory to go? And I guess, what other strategies Did you have along your career that worked well, for you, for self advocacy of what you've done, and what you wanted to do in the next stages of your career?

Kristen Groh - Yeah, I mean, I think it was, every instance was kind of a little bit different. But I think when I saw an opportunity that I was interested in, and I raised my hand, I knew I had to tell a bit of a story about why I was interested in it, but also what I thought I could do for the company, or for the clients or, or whatever. And so I really had to kind of package that up a little bit. So if I said, Hey, you know, I'm doing this role right now as an account director, but I really think that I have a lot of ability to drive the digital strategy, and I want to get into the weeds, I want to actually, you know, write the content, and be a part of driving that part of the work. And so I, you know, I would lean in where I saw an opening, but then present the reasons that I felt like I could, you know, fill that, that opening, and then I was also pretty open about what I needed to do that. So, you know, early on my career probably wasn't as good about it. But you know, noticing things like I'm, you know, I'm weak in this area, can I find a mentor who will help me to learn that or I need some training, and either going after that myself, or asking the company to invest in helping me grow in that area, and more times than not, they were they were open and willing, because I was a hand raiser. You know, and I think in general, especially in smaller companies, with that entrepreneurial focus, the hand raisers usually get what they want, because they're raising their hand to do more.

Peter Szczerba  - Right. And I'm curious, you know, you've transitioned away from kind of the smaller companies, you're working in a much larger company, now, you yourself had the career of like, wearing a number of different hats along the way. And I think, you know, you always hear about these stories that used to happen of, you know, starting in the mailroom, making it up to executive leadership. And, you know, sometimes, I think the sentiment is that those are very difficult things to replicate in today's industries and kind of job markets. And I'm curious, as a leader, do you still see an opportunity for folks, you know, relatively early in their careers, to be able to take the risks of, you know, changing from disciplines without having the regret of maybe not advancing far enough or specializing enough in one space?

Kristen Groh - Yeah, I think so. I mean, and, you know, I was spoiled because of where I started. It was never a question for me to kind of jump around and try new things. I think also because, you know, I started my career in the late 90s, early 2000s when this thing called the internet was really starting to take off and there weren't any disciplines. It was like all hands on deck. Try to do this thing that was so new to everyone. And so, you know, you got to kind of jump around a lot. And so there's a lot of folks in that era that I think have been able to kind of set that mentality of carving your career out as you go. But I don't think that that is impossible for people now. I think that curiosity is what really drives that and you know, kind of being able to look beyond the things that you're assigned and the things that job that you're doing. To find new opportunities, that's how we grow and transform as a company is when the individuals are pushing themselves outside of the box that they think they sit in. So I think there's value not just to you as an individual to do that, but also to the organization as a whole. And I don't think that it negates the ability for you to become, you know, deep discipline expert in an area, you know, some people are going to be t shaped, and some people are going to be eye shaped and be cone shaped. And so I'm a big fan of that cone shape. Personally, I definitely mean sometimes I feel like the tongs on my comb are a little short, but I try to continue to develop out, you know, new things. And I'm always learning right now I'm, you know, I'm training myself in Salesforce platform, and I taught myself AWS, I got certified, just because I was curious. And I think that, you know, people tend to put themselves in a bit of a box and don't let their curiosity take them where it's gonna take them.

Peter Szczerba - I love that sentiment of maintaining curiosity, even in an executive leadership role. I think that that is really exciting to hear from from somebody who's had your sort of career to still not have lost that. And I think it's encouraging to know that it's something you shouldn't lose, to continue developing that. And I want to ask a question, though, because the word opportunity keeps popping up in this conversation as well. Do you find you know, amongst all these different hats that you've worn? Was there a specific time where there was like, an opportunity that it was more than just hand raising, but you flat out seized and made happen for yourself?

Kristen Groh - Yeah, well, my current role didn't exist, before I decided I wanted to happen. And so I, you know, I'll be honest, when we, you know, sapient has been going through quite a transformation itself in the last couple of years. And for me, personally, I was struggling a bit to figure out where I fit in that in the organization, and you know, what value I brought. And so I really need to think about, you know, what it is that I brought, what my contribution was, specifically, and what that meant in the construct of our organization. And through that I said, you know, I'm actually really, I have a lot of depth of knowledge in the CPG space, it's something I have a lot of expertise in. I also am very good at networking, I'm good at developing relationships. And I think, you know, that was really important as we were trying to kind of reframe what our go to market strategy was. And so I went to my, my boss, and I said, Hey, I would really like to take ownership of this CPG space, you have a lot on your plate, I have a lot to learn. But I think it's, you know, it's an area where I can focus, and I can really help us grow in this in this vertical. And I can do a lot by networking into our counterparts in the other Publicis Agencies that already have quite a bit of relationships within the cpgs and use that to build on. So I really carved out my own unique value proposition to the business and again, you know, defining what it is that I needed to be successful. And it's, it's a constant dialogue between my boss and I about, you know, how do I continue to learn? What do I need from her and from others in the company, to to grow and to be successful and to deliver on the goals that I set out for myself.

Peter Szczerba - I'm curious. There's that word again. But I'm curious now, in regards to hand raising or seizing opportunities, that the way that you describe this, right, it seems like it wasn't just one conversation that led to you taking on, you know, the CPG vertical and assuming kind of this net new role, right. Like that probably had a ton of conversations that that ultimately ended the way that that you kind of had designed, but I wonder, you know, especially now without being able to have those kind of Hallway Conversations, you know, maybe They're slowly returning, but they won't. They'll return in a hybrid form with kind of the remote workforce and stuff like that. What do you think is the right way to approach kind of hand raising successfully or, or trying to seize an opportunity to create an opportunity for yourself within your organization in kind of our current remote hybrid digital, kind of reality? Have you seen anything work within your teams that you were impressed by? Or do you think that there's a way to approach it that would be successful?

Kristen Groh - Yeah, I think, you know, first of all, you have to have a plan, you have to really know what it is you want. And sometimes that's just writing a vision statement for yourself. And it's, you know, just sitting down, going through the exercise of defining where you want to go and what that looks like. And then kind of laying out the steps to get there, including, you know, where you have gaps and recognizing those gaps, and then being able to kind of think through, you know, how to fill those gaps. And that's where that conversation really comes in. And I think, whether you're doing that in the hallway, or you're doing that over video chat, like we all do now, it's really just, you know, I think you have to do a bit of self reflection to get there and understand your starting point. So many times in my career, I didn't do that I just kind of had a notion of an idea. And I was able to kind of talk my way into it. And I didn't really know where I was going with it. But this time, specifically, I actually did the work to sit down in a very disciplined manner, and write out my plan. And I think that was really critical to having that conversation. And honestly, it was about two conversations. That was it. So because I was so detailed, and so thoughtful, and kind of mapping out what I wanted, and what it looked like and how to get there. And I'm sure you know that the years of us working together, you know, and really spending time talking and kind of, you know, over the time, getting to that it seemed like a very logical step to her as much as to me. And so, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't that far out in the field. But I think for anyone, you know, wanting to make a move or shift, you know, just really thinking through the vision, and the steps to get there is really critical. And then I think the other thing, and I you know, I want to use the word imposter syndrome, because I think, you know, it's so like so many women, especially have it, but I, you know, I run into a lot of men who I think are finally fessing up to it as well. I had to force myself to believe that I could do it, right, I really wasn't, you know, it's not like I'm this big, you know, chest beater who is like, I'm gonna do this, and I'm so amazing. I had to really, you know, write down and, and look at, you know, the things that I felt I was bringing to the table, what my value was the business because, you know, so often I think we just kind of get into go mode and do mode, and we don't really reflect back on what it is we're we're bringing to the table. And so, you know, I just kept feeling like I you know, I didn't have confidence in myself, I didn't really know where I fit in, when I sat down and did the exercise of writing down, what have I done? What have I done in the last six months? Where How can I take that and do more of it? What am I good at? What do I like doing? What do others think I'm good at? And it's something that I have to do fairly often, I think, you know, we go through our EYP process of evaluations and things like that it's so necessary, because I think people don't really take the time to reflect and, and understand their value, and therefore they're not maximizing it. But if you can do that, if you can really think through, you know what it is you're good at and why. And then you can take that and run with it.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that. The sentiment of self reflection being so important. And I think for my for myself, whenever I kind of do that annual or semiannual self reflection effort, I find that, you know, what I'm good at, let's say hasn't really changed much since the last time I've done it. It gives me an enormous amount of anxiety and suddenly lights a fire under me to like, I need to pursue a new skill. I need to read a book about something that's relevant to the industry or or whatever right to push to push that label further. But now, you said something really interesting about you know, early in your career, maybe you didn't sit down and plan it out. You went with a sentiment and kind of maybe a gut feeling or, or the decision was a little less thought through and I I'm really wondering, was there an example where you made a decision to make a transition or pursue an opportunity or raise your hand with something where it didn't work out like you hoped and and if that you have an example of that I'm curious, how did you bounce back.

Kristen Groh - Yeah, I've got a couple of those. They're all kind of intertwined. But I, at the design agency I mentioned before I went to the big advertising agency. I was in it, I was running strategy, I was doing digital strategy and brand strategy. And I was really a strategist in a purist form. And at the time, we were struggling with one of our biggest accounts, it didn't have leadership, you know, the, the account was really strained. And I said, Gosh, you know, here's something I can, I could fix that. I know how to do that thing. And so I said, Look, I'll come in and help do that. And in doing that, I moved out of that strategy discipline where I was really starting to grow. And I think I, you know, could have gone much further into that area. So you talk about making those shifts and maybe losing that discipline, focus. You know, that was a moment for me where I could have continued on and really honed my skills as a deep strategist versus shifting over more to a generalist type of role. It was successful for the business and for the client relationship, and I was able to achieve the things that I said I could achieve. But I think for my career growth and what I was very interested in at the time, it may not have been the best move for me. And I would say, you know, I've been able to kind of shift back over in my generalist role to be more focused and driving strategy and those sorts of things over time. But I missed out on that early point in my career where I could have made a more dramatic pivot. And similarly, I, you know, in that same position, this is again, that kind of the, the watch outs and those smaller companies is that you tend if you're a hand raiser, or if you're someone who tends to kind of jump in and take over things that you know, where you see a need, oftentimes, that can be at the detriment of your own career. And so another move I made there was, we didn't have any sort of professional services, software, any way of managing the business, really. And so I, I said, Oh, I, you know, why don't I take this on, and took this on as a project and you know, it, it was fine. And I was very successful, we actually implemented this, this software, we train the whole organization, and we got everyone up and running on this thing, it was a very transformative moment, that allowed the company to triple in size, got it out of, you know, any kind of read that it was in at the time. And really, you know, positioned the company for growth. But again, for me personally, now, I was all in this kind of operations mode. And I was seen as very successful in operations. And I was like, I hate operations. I would like to get back to strategy and clients. And so at that point, I decided to just make a move on to a new company.

Peter Szczerba - I think what's really interesting about that, though, is even as as you mentioned, that last operations example, you kind of the tone of your voice, very clearly articulated, you know, how excited you were to, to solve a problem that you saw your you were solving, because you knew it needed to be solved, and it wasn't being solved by anybody else. And I think what is a good example of is even though necessarily, it kind of stalled, let's say, your progression in the discipline or area that you want it to progress for your career, you still made enormous impact as you made the best out of solving that problem, and ultimately, probably still contributed to securing whatever your next opportunity what,

Kristen Groh - Yes, yeah. And I think everything kind of stacks up to be experienced and contributes to you know, who you are as a person and a professional and where you go, and every experience matters. And, you know, I have just always kind of chased the shiny object, for lack of better word, not always the shiny object I wanted to go after, but the thing I needed to go after and, you know, always moving forward and never looking back. And I think it hasn't been until the last several years that I've actually paused and looked back and said what what value have those experiences brought to my career and to myself, personally, kind of what is the the sum of the pieces, if you will, and I see so much value and all of those experiences that you know, I've probably or definitely did not see in the moment. Right. And so, you know, I think, on one side, we need to be conscious of all that and I think that again, that goes back to that self reflection. On the other side, I think is really thinking through, you know, when you're, when you're thinking about taking something on or going after something just like, you know, what are the what are the trade offs, don't let those cripple you, I just never even thought about them. I just, I never thought about them at all, I just went for it. But I think, you know, it's important to kind of understand what the trade offs are. And factor those in.

Peter Szczerba - I was very cool. And I think that it's such an important thing for people to internalize to understand that, you know, even if the experience does, it doesn't seem perfectly aligned to whatever master plan you have, ultimately, it's still experience and still gonna grow, you diversify your skill set. And at the very least, up, you learn more about your own character, and kind of what you're made out of, ultimately, and what it's all going to sum up to, once you do sit down, do that reflection exercise that you mentioned, that you successfully did in the last couple years. And, you know, I think where I'd love to kind of take this kind of final question for this conversation is, is based on kind of all your experiences and having attempted and successfully used different strategies, or maybe on successfully throughout your career? What are some lessons that you might pass on to anyone who's really struggling with self advocacy and, you know, communicating their impact or hand raising for that opportunity? What can you kind of leave as some tidbits or lessons for folks like that?

Kristen Groh - Yeah, I would say first, I'll go back to my my earlier theme around curiosity. For one thing is, you know, always be curious and looking for those moments of change for yourself. And that's the first step obviously, and then you really again, reflecting and understanding your value, because your value may not fit into the definitive box that the company has articulated as your value, right, you may not say, oh, I've ticked all the boxes, I should move up to the next level, or I've ticked all the boxes, I should move over to this new discipline, sometimes you have to come at it sideways, sometimes you have to say, you know, this is something I have, that's a, you know, maybe a nascent value that I'm not even bringing to the table right now. present that out as something that that matters, and something that can change the space that you're going to think less I mean, it's a balance, right? You have to think about what you want to get out of that move. But you also have to think about what you're going to bring to that move, when you go there. And then I think, you know, when it comes to self advocacy, write it down. Really, really write it down, tell your story to yourself. And you know, spend the time to really think through those details of why you want this, why does it matter to you? And why are you going to be successful? Or are you going to bring value? Or what are you you know, what is it that is going to matter at the end of the day to you and to the organization and use that to go forward and tell your your story. And sometimes there's tools that exists like I, you know, I hate to go to the promotion space, but I was at another organization where I was very, very confident that I should be promoted. And I didn't understand why I was not getting promoted. And so I pulled down the little sheet that talks about what the next level looks like. And I wrote down all the contributions I made and the story that I had, you know, to go along with each of those. And I went to my supervisor and I said, Hey, I really feel like I should be promoted. And here's my story. And I went through the whole thing. And as it turned out, she didn't even know what level I was or what level I should be next. And so sometimes it's just a matter of self advocating period, now sapient is not that bad. We would never do that to our people. But it's something to just kind of be watchful for is, you know, just because you have somebody you know, don't don't assume I guess what I'm trying to say, Don't assume that somebody is watching out for you. And then somebody knows what you should be doing next, you have to really think about it from your own lens, and you have to go out and have those conversations and more often times than not, there was nothing to be afraid of, because that person just wasn't thinking about it. And in new spark something and the conversation can start.

Peter Szczerba - I think that's so important for people to internalize whether it's you know, in the managed services space in the advertising space in the digital space, tech anywhere, any industry and you know any organizational environment, but to understand that, you know, it's very easy to in your own head start to pile on all these assumptions that other people are thinking about your promotion. Or your career advancement and evaluating you against it and it and then once you get to a moment of disappointment, it's that much greater and magnified, because you assumed everyone else was thinking about it through the same lens of importance as you have, right. But if you didn't communicate that, then then there very well may have been a big gap, like you just said, and I think they're at the very least simply just stating it, whether you first write it down for yourself, and then and then speak it out or send it as a written communication. So that way, it's just, it's out there, right? And acknowledged, I think, is a really important sentiment and then this idea of balancing not just what you're going to get out of a move or, or a piece of work that you're going to do, but also what you're bringing to the larger table, I think is really important is that is just a humbling way to think about it. And it will ensure you do things the right way. I think those are two really great sentiments to kind of close out what I think has been a really informative conversation because I just want to thank you for your time and your insight and sharing your career journey with us. This was really great. Thank you.

Kristen Groh - Yeah, thank you so much for having me.