OYP Episode 23: Liam Whitaker

Liam, Senior Associate Agile Project Management and Global Pride Co-Lead at Publicis Sapient, talks about the power of leaning into your brand, being memorable and refusing to have a passive role in decisions made about your career.

Interview

Ashley Snow - Welcome back to the Own Your Potential Podcast, where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe about how they've taken control of their career growth and lessons on how you can do. I'm Ashley snow. And today I'm talking with Liam Whittaker, Program Manager at Publicis Sapient, government services, and also the global co lead of the Pride Business Resource Group. Liam, first things first, can you tell us a bit about your career background?

Liam Whitaker  - Sure. I will be the first to note that I am younger than some of my colleagues. And my career journey has been significantly shorter. Not to say that that's a bad thing. But it definitely means that my career journey has not been super linear. I graduated from American University here in Washington, DC in 2014. And I got a degree in international communication with emphasis on East Asia, a minor in psychology and almost a minor in Japanese language, which, if you looked at what I'm doing today, has absolutely nothing to do with my current role. So when I graduated, I quickly decided that I wanted to stay in the DC region, I got a job as an entry level assistant is a good word for it. I supported this phenomenal woman, she was a Executive Vice President of defense and national intelligence, and a real rock star, I learned a great deal from her in terms of contracts and program management and you know how to garner respect and acknowledging when you're just lacking information or acknowledging where you need to grow. I turned her lessons into a new role, I joined a new contract as a fully billable resource. So I moved from non billable, billable work as an IT consultant. And that transition actually afforded me the opportunity to work at Publicis Sapient, although it was Sapient government services at the time, I was fortunate that I didn't actively seek out Publicis Sapient I was recruited, which was a nice pat on the back. And then I saw I joined publicist sapient, specifically, our Securities and Exchange Commission project, which was fully business analysis, to redo their mission critical Edgar system is a challenging project, but I got to work with some pretty amazing individuals that ranged from straight out of school, roughly the same experience as I, all the way up to senior directors, and vice presidents of the company. From there, I am now on the HERSA project, which is, you know, equally as validating, and, you know, rewarding. And I haven't really looked back, though, I will say that partially, my degree program was to have the opportunity to take on a role that bettered people in places and individuals and some of the systems that we, you know, have in our society, I do that partially in my IT consulting work. Currently, I work on a system that helps define areas and populations most in need of health professionals. But there's a big difference between building a system that facilitates those types of decisions and policy driven outcomes from, you know, being on the ground doing it. So I actually am looking at pursuing law and having that facilitate how I approach problems not both from an IT perspective, but from our now policy driven decisions as a government and consulting firm.

Ashley Snow - So sounds like you've done some really amazing work already in your career and knowing you, it's just the beginning. So I'd love to narrow in a little bit more on you and kind of your personal brand and story. What have you done to own or control the narrative around yourself around your story throughout your career so far?

Liam Whitaker  - So a lot of people think that their personal brand means that it's singular, it's, you're known for one thing, and, you know, that generally makes up a majority of what people are associating with you. I've never ascribed to that belief. However, it does happen that when I joined Publicis Sapient, I was known for two things I was known for having great hair, and I was known for having great penmanship. neither of which is the strongest foundation for a personal brand. However, it did give me insight into having qualities that people regularly attribute to you, and how those can be used to get you to be known for something else. And so the kid with grreat hair and great penmanship identified what was what he was passionate about and at the time I was still seeing some inequality in terms of workplace representation and, you know, employee rights for those who are in marginalized communities. So part of owning my brand was, I leaned into being known for these certain, you know, extraneous or funny characteristics. And I let them fuel my leadership style when I took on, you know, things outside of my billable work. So aside from being, you know, responsible for IT systems and working and managing a team of developers, and QA, and so on and so forth. I also took on the leadership of our LGBTQ Business Resource Group, at first just for the Arlington office, and I built a brand of being, you know, knowledgeable and thoughtful about these employee and labor issues. And that quickly cascaded into other opportunities, other leadership opportunities, specifically, to the point where I was all of a sudden the global treasurer for our BRG, which essentially, constituted managing a budget of $25,000 to $30,000. And my work in that role led me to becoming the global Pride co lead, which now I still manage the same budget, as well as managing a network of 11 offices and over 30 volunteers all working to the same purpose of workplace equality and equity. So I think back to your question, Ashley, of, you know, when you're building a brand, it can be as it can be on as little or as much or have as much meaning as you want it to. And it can evolve over time, I emphasized You know, my professionalism and my, my attire and my hair, which sounds superficial, but also leaves an impact. And you can leverage that and turn it into something significantly more meaningful to you on a personal level, like, I'm a gay man, and I'm super proud of it. And I'm happy that I work for a company that allows me to bring my full self to work. And it is the same company that has afforded me the chance to build a brand around that, that also fuels my the passion and the effectiveness of the work I bring to my clients.

Ashley Snow - I love that answer, at least in the honesty of it, I think it all comes down to being memorable. And it doesn't take long for a brand to evolve from the kid with great hair to the kid with great hair, who makes a tremendous impact on people, you know, both personally and professionally. And you're you've been in control of that narrative, which I think is incredible. When it comes to questions or decisions being made about your career specifically, do you feel like you've been an active or a passive participant in those decisions throughout your career? And why or why not?

Liam Whitaker  - Again, another great question, feel like going to be saying that about all of them? Before I answer that one, though, I speaking about the things that, you know, people are known for, you know, I've had the opportunity to meet you in the office actually several times. And, you know, it also is appropriate to say that you have become known for not only your impeccable fashion sense, but just how effective you are in what you do. So, I think it can be said that many people leverage the smallest details to their benefit. Thank you for that. Um, back to your question about how active or passive I am. And you know, my own advocacy and my own career path. If you ask people above me, I guarantee you that they will be polite and say that I am the right amount of active but if you ask me, I'm probably what's the polite way of saying this? I'm very forceful. I don't particularly like when I feel that things are happening to me. which lends itself to a lot of actions on my part, I document feedback, both formal and informal feedback at any time, so, you know, companies push these formal schedules or semi formal schedules of, you know, soliciting feedback from not only people who lead your projects or supervise you, being your peers and those who are under you. I make that a point of a weekly or monthly practice of, you know, encouraging my people and the people around me to provide solicited and unsolicited feedback, because it only it only serves me, it really does. It only makes me a better employee. It only makes me a better leader, a better manager, even a better colleague, knowing when I should be asking a personal question or being aware of contemporary events that are impacting people who had different experiences than me. I think that's the first step of being active in your own growth in your own career. is just making it okay for everyone else, to be honest And transparent and open about, you know what you're doing well, what you're doing poorly, how you can be better. So that's the first active role that I've taken in my career growth. In terms of my joke earlier about, you know, how forceful I am, I take that feedback and that first step of being active, and you translate it into where you want to be. I joined the company as an Associate Program Manager. And I did that because I just loved what sapient was known for its culture and its people, and what derives the work that they both choose to pursue and what they inevitably deliver. That being said, I had three or four years of experience before I joined Publicis Sapient, which means I was already at a career stage, not necessarily exemplified by my experience. So I already had to start documenting and ensuring that I had a case. And being active in that pursuit of, you know, career progression, I didn't want to be an associate any longer than I absolutely needed to be because I have the experience that garner's movement, and that yielded me a promotion to senior associate pretty quickly, I, we finished the Securities and Exchange Commission project, and I was afforded the chance to, you know, move into that next grade. And the same thing is happening now. I've been a senior associate for two and a half years, and I've been a consultant, arguably for almost seven years. So I have seven years of experience, three of which are in managing roles, managing a team managing a workstream, or multiple work streams. If you want to be active in your own growth, you need to be aware of what it is you're doing in your day to day work, you need to know what those this type of activity or action is, and use that very clear observable behavior, to align yourself to the next career stage that you want to be at. And I think that is what I would encourage people to do in terms of being active or quote, unquote, active in their career development. Don't put yourself into a position where things are happening to you, that never makes you feel good and never makes you feel empowered to move somewhere else or moved to the goal that you are striving for.

Ashley Snow  - I empathize with that so much, Liam. So on that note, tell us about a time that you seized an opportunity and what the outcome of that was?

Liam Whitaker - Yeah, outside of outside of my actual career growth, but across the levels of Publicis Sapient. I think there are a, I think it's most easily observed in how I've built my impact with respect to pride, our our LGBTQ Business Resource Group, I joined forces sapient in 2016. On Halloween, very memorable first day, I still regret that I didn't wear a costume, I joined and then in, I believe it was March. So I wasn't even six months into my tenure, who was the sapient, the head of the Arlington office, pride, Business Resource Group stepped down, and they sent an email to the entire office, inquiring if anyone was interested. And I was told by multiple people both above me and in my peer group, that you really shouldn't take on extraneous non-billable responsibilities in your first six months of Publicis Sapient, because it can be very exciting. It can be very worthwhile to take them on. But it does lend itself to being pretty overwhelming. If you're getting acclimated to a company acclimated to a client. Perhaps this is your first time taking on billable work. And you know, you do need to keep those things in mind when you're taking on new opportunities. And I mean, this is not advice I would give someone or give exclusively to someone out of college, I would give this to everybody. You always need to be mindful of your own priorities and capabilities. But I elected to ignore all of them, whether to their, you know, chagrin or not. I ignored all of them. And I emailed the person and I was like, I'm incredibly interested in taking on this work. What does it mean? What does it entail? And arguably, pride and my work with pride has afforded me more opportunities, both in terms of visibility to all levels of the organization to you know, my own personal career growth. I took on that role in 2017. I've since grown that into a global Pride co lead. What that means essentially is instead of just worrying about pride and LGBTQ advocacy in our Arlington office, I now am functioning at a level of thinking about, you know, how the latest executive order out of the White House is affecting, you know, a specific segment of our company, for example, government services or, you know, interacting with our diversity and inclusion leads across all of the different regions, India, Asia, Pacific, Europe, and North America, I think taking that opportunity and placing the importance and passion I have for something that doesn't necessarily align with my billable work afforded me the opportunities I have now and have really served to benefit me, in terms of I have the ears of senior leaders, when something does come out in the news that needs to be addressed. I have the ability to connect diversity, inclusion, talent to new opportunities, both within my sector and other sectors, because I am afforded visibility across multiple segments of our company. Now a personal and you know, I'll be selfish self advocacy, all of these senior leaders know who I am, I mean, going back to my story about building a brand on something simple. Originally, I was this kid with great hair and awesome blazer. And now I am a subject matter expert that senior leaders come to for questions on, you know, anything from the meaning of a specific Pride flag to what kind of gender terms should be removed from a communique to, you know, how do we best approach a problem that involves, like, the contemporary events around, you know, racial inequality and, and those types of things? I think, you know, I can trace it all back to that decision of, you know, prioritizing my own interests and passions against the well meaning advice of someone trying to help me balance my workload and my personal life.

Ashley Snow - Yeah, I would absolutely agree with you that the extra curricular activities at work, as I like to call them are often the ones that make the biggest difference in our professional lives. And I would wholeheartedly support your argument that making time for those activities pays off in dividends. Finally, do you think that there is a negative social perception around self promotion? And if so, what can we do to challenge it?

Liam Whitaker  - Yeah, that's a really interesting question. I will always caution when I'm asked about, you know, a negative perception of something. negative perception in whose eyes is always my counter question. And I think this question gets down to as leaders and senior leaders and higher ups in a company, is there a negative perception of someone who acknowledges their own worth, and advocates for themselves? At Publicis Sapient I don't think so I think it's something that we encouraged. And I'm happy to see. It comes down into the activities we expect from our people, the enabling your potential tool, I mean, we call it enabling your potential because it is on you to advocate for your own growth areas, it's on you to advocate for where it is you'd like to see yourself in six to 12, 18 months, it is on you to enable your potential and your greatest potential. And so Publicis Sapient, I don't think we have a negative connotation with self advocacy and self promotion. In fact, I do think we encourage it to a a given sense, society. Definitely, I think there is a huge problem, in terms of how we talk about ourselves, not even with just people we care about and who we engage with on a daily basis. I think there is a sense of not wanting to come off as cocky, not wanting to come off as arrogant, not wanting to come off as you know, these society deemed negative traits. And it doesn't serve anyone really, I think, if you're actively engaged with the idea of promoting yourself and promoting your abilities, you've gone through the thought exercise of, I acknowledge that I have experienced extensive experience in this particular tool particular, you know, attribute, particular management style. Like, for example, I know that I am a brilliant facilitator. And it's not because I'm cocky it is because I have gone through extensive classes on it. It's something that I identified as a growth area,  something I want it to be good at. And I am now good at it. And so I shouldn't feel ashamed or negative about stating that this is something that I worked hard for, and am now good at. And I think, you know, that's how you book a negative impression or something that society quote unquote, says you shouldn't or should do. One other negative self promotion, self advocacy that I see not only in society, but something that I think every company struggles with is that sense of, you know, intangible valuation versus tangible valuation. And what I mean by those two terms is, I can feel valued based on the feedback and, you know, accomplishments of my team and my project and my client. And those are all very worthwhile. The tangible evaluation comes down to things that, you know, people get really uncomfortable talking about salary, bonuses, you know, benefits, packages, things that you facilitate your navigation through the world. And I see it happen all the time. People don't feel comfortable talking about that, and they don't feel comfortable advocating for themselves in a tangible valuation since. Like, even I struggle trying to explain or explain how valuable I am in terms of hard numbers. And, you know, it makes people uncomfortable, but I would encourage everyone to acknowledge your own strengths, acknowledge where you are in your career, and do your homework so that you know what your industry is, you know, valuing your skill set, and don't feel uncomfortable walking into a conversation saying, look, I have the wherewithal, I'm a consultant. This is my chosen career, and I would encourage anyone in my field to do the research, to take that to your superior or your advocate or up here and say, Hey, have you seen this piece of information? Is this aligned with what you're thinking and like, I won't say band together, but have an honest conversation around, you know, the difference in your tangible valuation and how you can leverage it in a self promotion conversation because self promotion isn't limited to I'm good at this skill. And I want to be recognized for it. self promotion is promoting yourself to the maximum benefit of yourself within reason. And that may be a bit confusing, but like the only limitation to your ability and your growth, either in salary or in skill set or in you know, relationship is your own limitation, the worst people can say is no.

Ashley Snow  - Liam thank you for this brilliant and fun conversation. I'm looking forward to watching you continue to grow and excel and create impact, and I will be cheering you on from the sidelines.

Liam Whitaker  - Thank you, Ashley. I love that you have put together this platform for encouraging people to own their own potential.