OYP Episode 21: Tamara Raymond and Kate Turner

Tamara Raymond and Kate Turner shed light on the Client Services role, including what the role looks like, why it is so important, and what unique skills each of them bring to the table that have made them successful in their careers.

Interview

Ashley Snow - Welcome back to the Own Your Potential Podcast, where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe about how they've taken control of their career growth, and lessons on how you can too. I'm Ashley Snow. And today I'm talking to Kate Turner and Tamara Raymond, both on the client services team at Publicis Sapient. Kate, Tamara, I'm so excited to be talking to you both today. To get us kicked off, could you please tell our listeners a little bit about you and your career background?

Tamara Raymond  - Sure. And I can go first. My name is Tamara Raymond, I have been with sapient. For three years, my career journey has actually always been in Client Services. I've been within this domain for about eight years in total. I actually started right out of university in an advertising firm, focused specifically on out of home advertising, which was super fun. And then I landed in the digital space at Sapient, three years ago, and it's been great.

Kate Turner - My name is Kate Turner, I am a senior client partner at Publicis Sapient, I've been here for about six years now. I've been working in the field, you know, and around digital for the past, maybe too long than I would like to to admit to myself, but it's definitely been a windy road to get here, I have taken a bunch of just twists and turns in my career. I think the one thing that has stayed constant for me as I've always been in a role with accountability for, you know, a client or an account in some way, shape or form.

Ashley Snow - So you're both in Client Services. I've also been in Client Services at PS for the last few years. So I think all three of us know that the role can tend to feel a little bit ambiguous at times, could you describe what you do kind of in your in your day to day to someone outside of PS who doesn't necessarily know what Client Services means?

Kate Turner - I will try to do this. But to be honest, I've had so many conversations with my mother, where she has asked me repeatedly what I do and written it down, you know, multiple times. So I'm still questioning today, whether I'm doing a very effective job communicating, you know, what it is that that we do, but I think when it comes down to it, our role can be wearing many hats. But at the end, it's really about making sure our clients are successful. And we are successful by driving client relationships, ensuring that we are, you know, have a healthy growing business for Publicis Sapient. And ultimately ensuring that we fundamentally understand what outcomes our clients are trying to drive and helping to get them there in whatever way we need to possible.

Ashley Snow - Tamara, anything to add?

Tamara Raymond  - No? Okay. I think you summarized it quite well. I was actually chuckling over here, because explaining what I do to my mom has been a challenge I can completely empathize with where you know, every year, I'm just like, Mom, no, I don't put the billboards up, or no, I don't build the website myself. But I think you summarized it quite well.

Ashley Snow - Yeah, I agree. And I think that focus on outcomes, instead of just outputs is a really important one, it's making sure we're driving long term impact and outcomes for our clients, especially for our clients, but also for our internal teams and serving as that intermediary point between both that really differentiates this role in an interesting way.

Kate Turner - Exactly. And the one other thing I was going to say, actually, is that at the core of everything you just said, is understanding our clients. And that is sometimes the hardest thing to do. Because we have to understand our clients business first and foremost, in order to be able to deliver outcomes for them. And that's a shift that I think takes some time for client services, people, whatever you want to call us, you know, business minded individuals to do because if we cannot understand, you know what the KPIs and the outcomes that our clients are looking for, then we actually are not going to be able to create the things that are going to deliver on those. So that's one thing in terms of that bridge bridge building and talked about that I think is just so important. And the shift, you know, is a constant evolution to get there, but that we need to be doing more of.

Ashley Snow - Yeah, so one thing that I think that's interesting about the client services domain is that in many cases, The role is kind of an evolution from a prior role. And, you know, I think Tamara and I are maybe the exception of people who entered our careers within the client services domain. Can you guys talk a little bit about, you know, the conscious choice around becoming a client services executive, or if it was more of just a natural evolution for you?

Tamara Raymond  - Yeah, for sure, I can start. I definitely started within this role, you know, right out of my schooling. And when I thought about what Client Services meant, what the role really entails, you think about the word itself, client service, client stewardship, being a client partner, what that really means. And I think Kate captured it beautifully, where your goal is to understand your clients business, to be an advocate for them, to really think about how you can help them drive towards these outcomes that are going to help them be successful. And for me, coming out of school, I wasn't sure exactly where I wanted to land, I've always had a business focus, I've always been very interested in marketing, in advertising in digital. And I think in this role, you're able to wear a lot of different hats, you're able to be that strategic voice, you're able to be the person that helps rally the team. But you're also able to be that partner to the client, where you're helping them understand and drive towards a goal that they weren't able to achieve before, or you're helping them look at something really differently, or you're educating them around something new. So for me, I think being in Client Services, and figuring out how to kind of excel in this domain, was thinking about how to be that like, advocate for my clients, and ensuring that relationships are built trust is built so that you can move things forward.

Kate Turner - Yeah, I think that, for me, it's been a little bit of an evolution only and that I started out my career really with a sense that I didn't really know what I wanted to do. You know, I did a lot of different things initially, you know, out of university, I worked at a couple of different companies. And I think that, you know, ultimately, my first couple years, like in the workforce was just exploration of like, what's out there, you know, and what kinds of things am I good at? And what should I be doing. And I think over the years, what I've come to learn about myself is that I've always been put in roles kind of, to, to fix something, something is broken, or like we're hiring you to, to, to look at this big accounts and find opportunities or fix problems that we have. And that's the way kind of my evolution into this client partner, client Services role kind of started. And then I realized that I was very good at translating what our clients wanted and needed from us into teams who didn't fundamentally have that understanding. And I still think that maybe as some of my superpower is that the translation of like, this is what I'm actually hearing somebody say, behind the words that they're actually using, which I think is necessary to help our teams focus on the right and most important things, combined with that, you know, what we talked about earlier, that understanding of the business landscape of that client and what other people are saying to them are important. But context is, is so important for our teams to be successful. That I think that's kind of how I at least evolved into the role and kind of morphed into this client partner role over over the many years.

Ashley Snow - Yeah, one thing we talk about a lot in this OYP space is the importance of developing our soft skills. So things like communication and negotiation, navigating difficult conversations, commanding attention, and presence, all of which are really, really core to this role. And I think part of that, you know, that's part of the reason that it's so challenging to articulate exactly what we do, because the success metrics aren't as easily defined as they are for someone, you know, maybe in a more technical role. So I'd love to hear from you both on how you think about your accomplishments in your success in this space. You know, how do you quantify your impact?

Kate Turner - I think that's a great question, actually, that I'm not sure I have all the answers to but I do, when I first started my career in, you know, essentially account or client roles, a lot of the conversations I was having with clients were really challenging ones. And they were oftentimes things that would keep me up at night, wondering how I was going to break this bad news to, you know, this person or how I was going to explain something that we needed to do things differently then what a client had an expectation of us doing. And I think that over the years, the one thing that has always stuck out with me is the phrase like clarity as kindness. And I think the best thing we can do with our clients is be upfront and straightforward with them about what we're seeing, you know, the differences and discrepancy as in what they might be seeing. And just be clear with them about what we need to do or what what we think they need to do. And oftentimes, that is uncomfortable client conversations that are happening, but necessary ones. Sorry, I have a toddler banging on my door. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. This is exactly. Yeah. Welcome to my mind.

Ashley Snow  - We are keeping her in the podcast.

Kate Turner  - Like that is a perfect example of just what happens to me. You know, as we talk about that, you know, how working from home life has changed, My world, that happens multiple times a day.

Ashley Snow - So I'd love to circle back to something you were talking about Kate around difficult conversations. And that is also really core to what we do. Today, I'd like to hear from you around kind of how you've approached difficult conversations with your clients in the past and any maybe lessons you have to share on that topic.

Tamara Raymond - Yeah, for sure. To be honest, difficult conversations have always been something for me that I've been really nervous around, I think I'm still growing in my career, and figuring out how to navigate those conversations. But if I can offer one piece of advice, it's be vulnerable and honest with your clients. I think I've had conversations go in a much more positive direction than even I expected. You know, when you're having challenging conversations, or you have to deliver news that's not necessarily positive, when you're able to really be vulnerable and explain why or be direct with your clients, when something isn't going the right way, I often find that raising your hand in advance is is always easier than you know, looking backwards. And even if it is a case where you're behind the curve, and you need to kind of own up and say, hey, there's a problem here, or I'm seeing this challenge. I think clients come to respect that of you. And you're able to really take something negative and build a stronger relationship when you can bring a problem, but also have a solution of how you're going to solve it or at least be open and honest enough to say, Hey, I'm seeing something that I'm uncomfortable with. So I think if you're able to just be vulnerable and be honest, it usually goes a lot better than you think.

Kate Turner - Yeah, and clients are people too. I think we put them on this pedestal like there's some foreign object, you know, that we don't understand or afraid to. But at the end of the day, we're all human. And we all have the same desire to be successful. And I think we can always find some common ground, you know, to work on. And I think that something Tamara and I talked about all the time is that our success is their success, right? We can only be successful if our clients are successful. So when there's something going wrong, I think we both have all of the same intentions of trying to fix that problem together. And the hope is that our clients are open and willing to partner with us in enough in the right ways to be able to get that done right or get that done effectively and move forward. And that's, you know, when I talk about dream clients, they're they're always the clients who are looking for that partnership, not just tell me what to do and go do it.

Ashley Snow - Yeah, I love your point around,  you know, clients are people too. And I think that's one of the beautiful things about this year is that it really has humanized us and like, your kids run up in the background and my cat is constantly walking in front of me, but so are our clients, you know, they're going through, they're having this shared experience with us at the same time. So can you talk a little bit about how your role has changed this year? You know, from that perspective in the face of remote work and, you know, in what ways has it remained consistent what lessons have you learned? What's been, you know, kind of the silver lining for you this year?

Kate Turner - Well, I think for me, there's so much in there, because it's been such a challenge for me this year to balance being a working individual who is very, very committed to her job and being a mother, who was very committed to that job. And this year has been kind of the intersection of the two for me, right. And I think that, as you talked about that humanizing view of our clients and ourselves and all of that, that has kind of just blended into who I am more this year, because I just accept that those are two things that I can't separate out and draw a line in the sand between me as my working self and me as my mothering self. And so this year has been just challenging for me to accept that people are going to see me in vulnerable situations where I'm trying to console, you know, a toddler, or you know, that they're running into a meeting that I didn't expect them to, or saying something, you know, ridiculous. So I think that for me, you know, it's been a lot about blending that together. And I think I've seen that a lot from our clients and our teams, you know, as well. But that has also been the silver lining for me is that I've had moments to see my child grow up that I would never have had, because I wouldn't be traveling or on a plane or doing something in the office where I wouldn't have had that opportunity. So I think it's taught me a lot about, you know, just continuing to bring my whole self to work and letting people see that I am both a mother and a working woman, as well as the fact that I've been able to just spend a little bit more time at home with with my daughter, who, you know, is in a very young age, and really still needs me all the time.

Tamara Raymond - Yeah, I think just to add to that, Kate, I think for me, remote work has allowed me to see clients, team members, friends, colleagues in an area where they are the most vulnerable. But it's also been able to show people in an environment where they're the most comfortable, which is at home. And so it's been nice to kind of be welcomed into someone else's kitchen or someone else's living room and seeing them in in a space where they're comfortable seeing, you know, cats and fuzzy animals make appearances and toddlers saying something funny, I think it's really humanized, everybody, and in some cases brought everybody to kind of like an even playing field where we are kind of all in the same space for the most part. And you know, there is an element of, of the struggle that we're all facing every day. And I think it's been really kind of nice to see clients in in a way that we never would have seen them in a way where they are more casual or more comfortable. I think the challenges have certainly been around that engagement in person with teams, you know, missing, the ability to have a celebration, where we're all in the same room together, are going out to celebrate a win. I think those social aspects have certainly been hard. But I'm hopeful that we'll get there soon.

Kate Turner - I also think that another challenge has just been building new relationships. So different, different people are more open to kind of meeting somebody virtually, you know, having their cameras on. And I think that, for somebody like me who I feel like something one of my superpowers is empathy. It's very hard to build a relationship with someone you don't know very well, to learn, you know, what they like, what they don't like to be able to read them, especially when there's no kind of video attached to this person. Now, you know, I couldn't have imagined years ago that we were always going to be on video conferencing, it seems like some really strange thing that I never imagined doing as often as we do now. But now that it's become the norm, I actually find it very challenging to have conversations when you know, both parties are not on on a video call. So I do think that it's been a struggle just said you're you're building new relationships, and we're trying to build on some, you know, existing relationships with people you haven't known for a very long time. During this, this pandemic, where everything is virtual, it just makes reading the other person very, very difficult.

Ashley Snow - Yeah, I think if you had told me a year ago when I was kind of still in the thick of traveling halfway across the country to visit clients that we'd actually be able to do our jobs and conduct our business successfully. Without that face to face contact, I'd have just laughed at the the concept and especially where there was this heavy business development element to my day job to see that our business has not only survived, but actually thrived from that perspective, despite the challenges of, you know, no physical face to face interaction, I think has been really eye opening. And I'm very, very curious to see what from the last 12 months kind of lasts in the long term and what old habits we pick back up once they're available to us again.

Kate Turner - I was thinking the same thing about the future is that I definitely think companies are going to have to look at the investment they were making, and to travel and try and figure out how to change that for the future, right, and what that looks like, and make some prioritization conversations. But the funny thing is that, I remember when I thought video conferencing was kind of creepy, it was, it was weird. And now it is so normal that that just goes to show you the exact thing we talk to our clients about all the time is that you can change behavior, right? It just takes time.

Ashley Snow - So finally, I'd love to know what keeps you engaged and energized in your job.

Tamara Raymond  - I definitely think the word engagement has been such a funny word. Throughout this pandemic, I feel like we've gone through all the things with Netflix and you know, podcasts, and there's been so much content. But I certainly feel like when things first started, I started going on morning walks. And that for me was just a really great way to start my day, keep me energized helped me stay kind of engaged throughout the day. And it really just set the tone for how I would kind of approach my work, my energy, my attitude towards the day, just some time for myself. And I think that now that that's become a bit more of a habit, I'm able to introduce other things into my routine where I'm reading more, I'm listening to more podcasts, I'm doing more research, etc. But then it's that same balance of, you know, learning when to rest, when to take time to just do nothing. I think for me, I focused on a lot more self care in the last 12 months than I probably ever have before. And I think I didn't realize the impact of how much energy that would give me to actually take time and pause a little bit for myself.

Kate Turner - Balance has never been something I have been very good at. I've always been an all in or all out kind of person. And I think that this pandemic has just emphasize that for me more than anything. I've done a lot of things that I feel like have made me very happy and energized in the form of exercise, I actually ran up my first marathon, during this pandemic, by myself, don't worry, no crowds. And I've done a lot of that exercise type self care activity. But I also have probably exercise every day since the pandemic started, maybe with the exception of like, I can count the number of days on my hand. So I'm not so sure that it's it's been the most balanced approach. But for me, that has just been what has given me some time, you know, outside of work to focus on. And then I think that I've really just poured myself over the past year into working with teams and solving problems taking on more and more responsibility for a variety of different things for Publicis Sapient, and really just focused on solving problems is I think, for me core to what keeps me energized in my job is how can I see things differently for the team and help them see the opportunities that are in front of them or help to solve one of our clients problems in a way that they feel really good about, and we feel really good about. That to me is keeps me keeps me going most days.

Ashley Snow - Kate, Tamara, I learned so much from you both already. And I'm so glad our listeners will have the chance through this podcast to learn from you as well. I think this has been so valuable and so transferable for people within the realm of client services, but also outside of it, so I can't thank you enough.

Tamara Raymond - Thanks for having us.

Kate Turner - No problem. Thank you so much.