OYP Episode 37: Atul Mehta

Atul Mehta, Senior Vice President and Managing Director of EMEA at Publicis Sapient, explains why building processes that encourage and enable self-advocacy in organizations with high performance cultures is critical for enabling fair and equitable growth for individuals.

Interview

Peter Szczerba - Welcome back to the Own Your Potential Podcast, where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe, about how they've taken control of their career growth and lessons on how you can too. I'm Peter Szczerba. And today, I have the pleasure of sitting down with Atul Mehta, who is Senior Vice President and Managing Director of EMEA at Publicis Sapient. Atul, very excited to be sitting down with you today, been looking forward to this conversation. Why don't we just jump right into it? Can you take us through your career journey leading up until this point?

Atul Mehta - Sure. So I'm delighted to be here. Let me take you through my career. So I spent six years with Hewlett Packard when I graduated, and I was a training programmer and then a programmer, and then I ended up leading a team of programmers. I got a bit nonplussed with the internal politics, because there was a lot of a lot of advice, I would give the, you know, I couldn't give because you couldn't say this to that person, or, and so I ended up leaving and joining Price Waterhouse to be an external consultant. And I stayed there for for 12 years, including a secondment to the US, which started as three months, ended up as nine years, came back to the UK. And at that time, within a year or so, post Enron, the consulting firms were in trouble if they were part of an audit company. And so we ended up being sold to IBM. So I then had 11 years at IBM, I left IBM. And after about nine months, I joined a publicist, sapient. And I've been here for seven years. So that's been my career journey,

Peter Szczerba - Just some interesting turns into career journey, I'd love to kind of unpack a couple of them. So you know, you spend time at Hewlett Packard, and then you transition more into the consulting? Did you find that? You know, the challenges in politics were? Did you see those reflected as you move from kind of a client facing organization into or client side organization more to a consulting space? Or did you see find yourself kind of freed of those and then able to kind of progress in your career or the way that you kind of hoped to?

Atul Mehta - I mean, I felt I was free to give clients, you know, the right advice without, you know, politics. But you know, as I've, as I've become older, I found that you do have to be very careful as you do that, and in terms of understanding the stakeholders, but when you start a consulting career, you know, clients at the level I was dealing out, you know, was certainly more than happy to hear, you know, what I wanted to tell them? You know, as I've gone further up, you do have to be very careful in terms of managing the stakeholders, but I guess that's the beauty of youth.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, absolutely. And so as you have kind of progressed in your career across clients and consulting side across a couple of different consultancies over the years, you know, these are high performance environments, where the idea of Own your, your owning your potential and kind of having to put your name out there and demonstrate impact, you know, those are embedded in in the cultures of these places. So I'm curious, like, how have you thrived through that? And have you seen differing cultures in regards to how people kind of self promote across those different consultancies?

Atul Mehta - Yeah, I have a mainnet. I mean, Price Waterhouse, because it's a client facing environment, whether you're an audit tax, or you know, litigation, it doesn't, doesn't really matter what part of business you're in, you are client facing, and the client focus is there. So what I found was that, you know, people that had that client relationship, didn't need to advocate for themselves. But quite often the people that were doing the work, you know, for those client partners, they weren't very well advocated for, I found a lot of client partners would take a lot of credit for work that, you know, had been done by their teams.

Peter Szczerba - Did you experience that I guess, as somebody who was doing the work, and then once you were able to ascend into leadership, was that something that you actively work to kind, of course correct. In the cultures of the places you were working?

Atul Mehta - Actually, I was very lucky in my career, I had a number of partners who who weren't like that, and they would advocate for me, but what I found was the colleagues of mine weren't quite so lucky. So as I saw their careers, not necessarily going the same way. as mine, I started to form a view that it would be better for some people to be able to advocate for themselves.

Peter Szczerba - Interesting. I'm curious, what were some of the strategies that worked particularly well for you, just as you were kind of growing through your career, you know, you had some advocates? Sure. And you made sure to take advantage of those. But was there anything that you were doing that you saw, that kind of sets you apart? That was pretty successful for you?

Atul Mehta - I think I was always focused on the client and the client outcome. And I was I was always I mean, very Direct with, with the partners in terms of what was going well, and what wasn't. So that I think enabled them to form a trusted relationship with me. And I was also very, very good with the client. So the clients also came to trust me. So the minute you've got a client who trusts you, and a client partner who trusts you, you know, you're in a good place,

Peter Szczerba - Right, and make total sense. And that's the sentiment that we've heard on here before this idea of, of focusing on the on impact, and, you know, those types of things will really fall into place. So, you know, your perspectives get shaped over time, especially as you're seeing some of your peers who are, you know, also delivering impact, but maybe not seeing the same growth or advocacy for them, as, as you'd hope that kind of shapes your perspective. So how did you bring that perspective to life through action? I know you're quite passionate about this space and enabling people to self advocate. I'm just curious to hear a little bit about that.

Atul Mehta - Sure. So I mean, the first time I really had to self advocate was when I was in the part of process that, you know, Price Waterhouse. And, you know, that was the first time where I had to go and, you know, present my case to be a partner to to a group of partners that I had never met before. And that was a bit daunting, because I've never done a mic. Yeah, no, obviously, it's a big step. So, you know, post that I was then, you know, much more comfortable advocating for myself. And I actually saw that, you know, being able to self advocate allowed you to put your case, versus someone else putting your case for you. And that certainly felt empowering to me. You know, pretty shortly after that, within a few years, I joined IBM, and IBM didn't have that process. And so we were quite vocal, not just myself, all the partners from you know, Price Waterhouse, Coopers, you know, wanted wanted to bring that process in. And so we did bring it into IBM, IBM never had that until that point of time. And that has certainly, you know, shaped my thinking that owning your potential and being able to advocate for yourself, whether it's at the partner level, or at the director level, you know, is a good thing.

Peter Szczerba - So that's, that's really interesting. I want to dig into that a little bit. The idea that bring introducing this process to IBM, where didn't exist before? Was there a bit of culture shock for those was there that hadn't done it before? Was there or I guess, maybe process shock? Was there pushback, you know, at different levels, in terms of adoption? What were some of the things that were put in place to help smooth in that kind of rollout process?

Atul Mehta - So actually, we were we were quite lucky, because in the, in the consulting business, it was almost like a reverse takeover, we had so many, you know, consultants, we had a lot more than IBM had. And when we came in, our culture tended to dominate. So there was a little bit of, you know, we don't do it, you know, this way. And we were like, well, this is the way we do it. And it works. And so we're going to introduce it. So there was openness on their side. we piloted it, they liked it, as well. So yeah, it worked out.

Peter Szczerba - You know, I've had the opportunity to witness this this passion firsthand, at Publicis Sapient where you've stood up this process as well in the international market, where director Plus, you know, essentially put together their case presented to a panel and they self advocate for their impact and make a case for their growth? And, you know, I'm curious, in your opinion, what are some of the critical success factors for a process like this? How do you ensure diversity, equity, fairness, and opportunity? You know, how are all those things kept intact, and people come out of the process, whether promoted or not, you know, feeling fulfilled and happy.

Atul Mehta - So I think the key is getting getting a diverse panel, you know, the panel has to has to bring the diverse perspectives that you're looking for when you promote someone. So you need, you know, people who are thinking that way, people who are looking out for that, so that includes, you know, people's success, or on the panel. It includes the capability groups, the industries, and you take all of those perspectives into account when you're looking at the candidate. And when you're going through that panel process.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, absolutely. And so I you know, whether here at Publicis Sapient or in your previous experiences when someone passes through that sort of experience and unfortunately, is unsuccessful, you know, what, what do you do to ensure that they, they, they don't take a step back in their kind of momentum, but rather use that as a building block. How do you turn that unfortunate news into continued forward momentum.

Atul Mehta - You know, subsequent feedback session afterwards whether they're successful or not successful. And if they're not successful, then a growth plan is developed on the back of that to say, here's the areas where we felt, you know, unique further development and further growth, and so that that would then form, you know, the growth plan for the individual, you know, next time around.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, I think that makes total sense. Now, on the topic of, let's say, you know, failure or setbacks, I'd love to kind of jump back into your career journey. Are there any examples of kind of setbacks across your, your experiences and the various, you know, places where where you've worked, where you needed to pivot, where you where you, you know, experienced failure and had to rebound and regain momentum? How did you deal with that? How did you account for that when you were self advocating for yourself? Any strategies that work well, for you there.

Atul Mehta - So I think, I think if I go back to my first domain, career change, when I left HP, and joined Price Waterhouse, at that time, you know, I would say, I was bumping up against a lot of a lot of things that, you know, weren't helping me. And I realized that in order to grow, I had to leave. And, you know, I could have joined another, another company and been in an IT department like I was at HP. But you know, I chose to go outside and be a revenue generator, rather than a cost. And for me, that was a big decision. Because all of a sudden, you know, you can't hide inside an organization, you are actually the face of the organization. What I also found in that is that if you're a revenue generator for an organization, that's a very different place to be than being a cost.

Peter Szczerba - So I mean, that inherently requires a bit of a different skill set, and then demeanor, you know, as you know, a revenue generator, there's a level of justification for the work that you're doing, that you're trying to sell through to clients. So, you know, did that require a major shift in kind of how you position yourself in your work and how you sold yourself, whether it's clients or otherwise?

Atul Mehta - Yeah, I certainly had to polish up a bit. I mean, I wasn't used to going and meeting clients and having them, you know, check that you were the right person for the work, you know, them checking your skills and checking your experience and all of that kind of stuff. So yeah, that did that did certainly, I mean, push me, and, you know, have me up my game, which I, you know, I probably needed at that time.

Peter Szczerba – Interesting and so, you know, I'm curious, because, while I would, based on my interactions with you definitely classify you more on the extroverted side of scale, do you do lean more extrovert or introvert, kind of naturally?

Atul Mehta - I'm more extrovert. But there are times when I can sit, you know, very quietly and be be perceived as an introvert. So but but yeah, I'm more naturally an extrovert.

Peter Szczerba - Interesting. So I mean, as you've transitioned away from, you know, client side into various forms of consulting, and then you've stood up some of these processes that focus on giving people the opportunity to advocate for themselves? Do you find that you know, those types of processes lend themselves better to an extrovert as an introvert, or do you think that, you know, somebody can be successful within them, regardless of which tendency they have.

Atul Mehta - So actually, we we did a lot of research when I was, you know, Price Waterhouse, and I mean, Price Waterhouse Coopers in terms of everybody we knew whether whether people were introverts or extroverts going in, because everybody had gone through the Myers Briggs type of testing. And we were able to very clearly determine that introvert extrovert made no difference to whether you got through the panel or whether you didn't, and actually the mix of partners at at those firms. There's no indication that being one or the other helps you to become a partner at any of the Big Four?

Peter Szczerba - And have you found, you know, having administered this process, being part of it for quite some time? Are there drastically different tactics, let's say for somebody who leans quite heavily towards introvert versus extrovert in terms of how they position themselves?

Atul Mehta - I don't think so I think what we're looking for is authenticity. And if you're authentic, whether you're introvert or extrovert, you know, the panel will, will warm to you. So I think I think you do need to be able to I mean, self advocate and talk about your case, which you know, in some cases, is uncomfortable for some people. But you know, with coaching, I think that's a, that's a hurdle we can get people over and we have got people over,

Peter Szczerba - I want to dive into another topic really quickly. Because I mean, you've played a little bit of a mentorship role towards the next generation leadership team, that I'm part of terms of us being able to tap into your bank of knowledge on the space as we try and impact process and make change. You know, have you had any significant mentors over your career that have helped you get over certain humps or guide you through, you know, various kind of scenarios within your career that you thought were quite critical?

Atul Mehta - I have actually, I've been lucky. I mean, through my career I've had, I've had managers who have been mentors to me and have coached me and helped me grow right from my time at Hewlett Packard, and you know, Price Waterhouse, even IBM And so yeah, I mean, I've had a lot of them. And they've certainly helped me. And I mean, part of people mentoring me is there was a certain point in my career when I felt Okay, I now need to turn this around and I need to start, you know, mentoring others.

Peter Szczerba - So as somebody who now mentors, others, do you find that you are actively looking for opportunities where somebody you see may or may need that guidance? Or do you let it happen kind of organically as folks come to you what, as a leader, what do you find is the most successful approach to helping people grow?

Atul Mehta - I think Both? I think there are some people, you know, who seek out mentorship on a formal basis. And I mean, that's fine. I've had people do that, and I mentor them. I've had people, you know, where I've reached out to them and said, Look, I really want to help you, you know, achieve, you know, this outcome. And here's how I think I can help. Are you okay with me doing that? And in general, you know, people are fine with it. In fact, people are delighted when you offer them help, because, you know, not many people would turn it down.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, absolutely. I think that makes a lot of sense. circling back quickly, to kind of these processes that enable, like, systematically enable people to self advocate for themselves and successfully kind of own their growth and drive their career. Do you find that especially over the last year, with so many of our process, turn processes and experiences turning to fully digital remote? Has that leveled the playing field a little bit in terms of how people are positioned, how they're able to sell themselves? Is it make it more equitable for folks, and versus having that in person process,

Atul Mehta - I think, I think when you're in a group, a group meeting, I do think, you know, being on zoom, or being on teams was kind of leveled it out when people can put their hands up, people can speak. So I do feel like it's kind of leveled it out. Versus there were times when we were on conference calls, and there'd be, you know, for example, six of us in the UK, and two people say in Germany, and it was felt that people in Germany were, you know, slightly disadvantaged by the fact that there were six of us in the room in, in London. So I do feel like now we're all you know, on screen, the it's level that out, and it's made the meetings much more equitable in terms of everybody, you know, gets, gets to say, everybody can say what they want. And with the meeting etiquette, putting your hand up, it has meant everyone has a voice.

Peter Szczerba - Yeah, absolutely. I think that's something that I've witnessed as well. And in terms of, you know, folks who previously would have would have sat quietly now having a much, much more consistent voice and, and prominent voice in in those types of interactions, which is really exciting to see. And, you know, you know, in our conversation, just before we started recording, you mentioned that some that you might be returning to offices soon. And so what I hope, and I wonder if how you feel about this is that those types of practice, behaviors that maybe people have developed remotely now will continue into, you know, our return to in person interactions that, you know, folks won't fall back into previous patterns.

Atul Mehta - I hope so I think I think everyone's learned, I mean, through this, that, you know, this technology can level things up, I guess, you know, as we go back to office, you know, like you, I hope we don't lose that. And I think, you know, meeting, organize and meet and the facilitators of meetings really need to be conscious of that. And I certainly am now much more conscious now, about making sure that we hear everyone's voice. Yeah,

Peter Szczerba - Definitely. So I mean, you've you've had you've had a long, successful career journey. You know, I'm curious, is there something left that you want to achieve to kind of more wholly Own your potential as you as you, you know, are in senior leadership now? And is there is there something on the table that still kind of, is an itch that needs to be scratched?

Atul Mehta - Not really, I feel like I've done everything I wanted to do in my career, I now feel like I want to give back and I want to grow, you know, the team around me and the team who work with me. And so that's really what I want to do. I just want to make things better for those around me and for the next generation, you know, leadership, like I mean yourself.

Peter Szczerba - I love that sentiment. And, you know, it's something that I've certainly seen folks benefit from in person hear. And so I definitely think that it's something that a lot of senior leaders would do well to adopt in terms of being able to create the type of growth cultures for folks to be able to, to confidently advocate for themselves. And so I'm excited to hear that. It's always been a pleasure as always connecting. It's been a ton of value out of this conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time out to sit down with me.

Atul Mehta - Thank you. I've enjoyed it.