OYP Episode 07: Geraldine White

Geraldine, NA Diversity & Inclusion Lead at Publicis Sapient, talks about the challenges underrepresented groups face in the realm of self-advocacy, and the incredible value a strong mentor can bring to an individual’s career development.

Interview

Peter Szczerba - Welcome to the Own Your Potential Podcast, where you'll hear stories from leaders across the globe about how they've taken control of their career growth and lessons on how you can too, I’m Peter Szczerba.

Adrienne Graham - I'm Adrienne Graham.

Peter Szczerba - And this is episode seven with Geraldine White. I am not allowed to be intimidated. Geraldine, tell us a little bit about your career journey.

Geraldine White - I started my career on the client side in a business consulting role. I was at 1-800-Flowers at a time that it was becoming 1-800-Flowers.com. I remember helping the craft deal with AOL, realizing that the internet was actually going to happen, which sounds bizarre now, but you know, luckily, it did. After my time there, I had my first agency role in 2000. I started off at Foot, Cone and Belding. In Client Services, I worked on Hilton Hotels and Taco Bell. I moved from there to Omnicom, working on ExxonMobil for about four years and leading some large scale programs for them, including their their first foray into into e commerce. From there, I went to Publicis. And it was actually while I was at Publicis, leading again, in Client Services, some efforts across CPG automotive pharma that I was actually doing a competitive analysis for, for a team against other agencies we were competing against in a pitch. And it was the first time I had learned or heard about Sapient. And I had sort of gone through the the other agencies in the list and done some research. And I wasn't really impressed by any of them one way or the other. But when I got to Sapient, and I was like, Oh, actually can be a problem. And sure enough, it was it and it ended up it was a Lenscrafters work that was done out of Boston, we certainly lost that pitch to Sapient. And what I realized it was the diversity of thought the fact that technology was brought in at the forefront of the engagement, and the sort of cross capability and cross functionality, collaboration, that was the the sort of differentiating factor for Sapient. So when the opportunity presented itself, in 2011, I joined Sapient, what was legacy Sapient. And I've been here ever since. And I did start in a delivery capacity, leading some large scale tech implementations as well as a tremendous amount of creative work. But what I knew in terms of my purpose, and my sort of benefit to the organization was I was called in a lot of times for difficult conversations and difficult clients. But ultimately, what I was really doing, I ultimately had a focus on people in terms of how I got to my current role that focus on people and its continuity was always there. But there were definitely significant times throughout my career that I had experiences that related directly to notions of diversity, equity, and inclusion that sort of ignited a passion in me, for me to know that this is what I really should always have been doing. I'll share briefly with you one of those experiences, I was at a particular entity that I will always allow to remain nameless throughout that journey I just described was coming up in the elevator with a gentleman who was as high and leadership as you could go. And in his attempt to actually connect with me, he looked at me and he said, I don't think I've seen you before, whose admin are you. Now, while there's absolutely nothing wrong with being an admin, from his lens, you know, based on my race and my gender, that was the only thing I could have been doing in the organization. And at that moment, I had a couple of choices, right, I had a very human and visceral reaction to being minimized. So what I felt in that way, or boxed in that way, but at the same time, I really instead I took it as an opportunity to educate. And so instead, I told him who I was what I did in the organization and the revenue attached to it. And it was the first time of many, many times throughout my career that I took that lens instead to bring education and awareness and hopefully impart change. There were definitely many instances that happened after that. But you know, this is and continue to happen, frankly. But that that ability to sort of be able to impart changes is what led me to my current role to be able to do it in the magnitude that I currently am knowing that those things weren't just happening to me. They were happening to other people in the margins, and how could I actually make a difference?

Peter Szczerba - What strategies for self advocacy and self promotion have worked well for you in your career?

Geraldine White - So I'll say that self advocacy and self promotion for me in particular has consistently been a bit more of a growth area throughout my career, that one consistent piece of feedback that I've gotten is that I didn't necessarily self promote. And I would have, you know, interesting calm With with leaders, I'm typically always going to be the last person to walk into someone's office virtually or otherwise, and say, guess what I did today, I did this amazing thing and you know, try to try to sort of impress someone in that way, I definitely have always been more comfortable with even if the effort that I was doing had the most impactful outcome, surfacing the success of other people and giving credit where I felt it was due. So while I still maintain that strategy, you know, I honestly believe that that's really what what leadership is. It's not about making whatever the effort is, or the outcomes in about yourself, I like I have no desire to be famous, so to speak. But I do have the desire to see progress and and impart change within whether it's within the organization or within the world. But in some cases, because I do also do a lot of career advancement, sort of consulting or advice within and outside the organizations. In some cases, I have to sort of take my own advice, and even if it's uncomfortable, realize when and where it's appropriate. I recently worked in a partnership with with Google to get all of our North America Womens Leadership Network leadsds through a session called I Am Remarkable, I Am Remarkable essentially takes the stigma out of self promotion, for women in particular, but also it affects other people in in the margins, where it is not your first instinct to sort of even with it, negotiate around salary, or just sort of step up and say, Hey, by the way, I'm remarkable. So the session sort of steps back to remove that stigma and focuses on you know, sort of, it's not bragging if it's facts. So what we did was to take that entire team through that session, but not just the training itself, they actually in a two part series with a session, we're able to go through a train the trainer. So now they are all trained facilitators, to be able to deliver that course, and share that empowerment, you know, for themselves and in their own personal networks, if they choose to do that, as well. So, you know, I have had to step back and sort of take my take my own advice, in some cases, and just realize, you know, now's an appropriate time to do this. And it's still not comfortable, frankly, but it is necessary.

Peter Szczerba - Geraldine, you touched a little bit on this in your previous answer. As important as self advocacy is you also talk about advocacy for others. So I guess the question is, what ways have you worked to promote or elevate the people around you throughout your career.

Geraldine White - So that's always been one of my my passion points. And regardless of what role that I've ever held in any organization, that has been my focus, I love to see potential realized in others, I'd love to see growth and recognition. So whether it is outside the organization in partnering with an organization that part with it focuses on women who have found themselves in tough situations, a woman may have left in the middle of the night with nothing but the clothes on her back and her child to sort of escape an abusive situation. And these are women from all walks of life, but they have to get back on their feet. And in walking through them in terms of like, going back to an interview, regaining their confidence, even understanding that they they might need to change industries or look at what their jobs set skills are, and really going over and in an interview process and resume and saying, You don't even see the transferable job skills that you that you have here, like seeing that recognition, of potential, even in that individual is is a huge, huge win for for me previously, in my delivery role in the organization, there was a time where I had probably far too many people reporting to me, because they were people like even though I was in delivery and program management, there might have been a couple of key ways or other people who were aligned to me because they knew that I with with intention would put a growth plan together to see even if it was a capability change, what were the things that could be done to really amplify what that person could actually bring to the table for themselves and for the organization and find what that sort of best match was and actually make it happen. So I I continue to try and do that in in everything that I do. And I think you know, questions like this, for example, where we were just talking about the self advocacy piece, like yeah, I'm sort of giving myself credit for the progress I've made for other people. So even this is an exercise. For me it still feels uncomfortable in some ways to say yeah, I did this thing or Yeah, I help these people in in these ways because it's just, it's just never what it's about for me. But if I'm you know, just to be totally honest, that that is the thing that I think continues to inspire me. Regardless of how difficult some of the conversations or the the exercises to get through some of this work does get. It is really being able to continue to influence that recognition of a potential and promise in in a range of people.

Peter Szczerba - So obviously self advocacy and advocacy for others have become more challenging in our new remote working reality. How do you think in this new reality, these tactics need to change and evolve to continue to be successful and brand building for yourself and for others?

Geraldine White - I agree that it is even more critical. In today's environment, you know, you almost have no choice but to advocate for yourself because of the the isolation, far less frequent are the opportunities for somebody to observe the thing that you you might be doing and advocate for you, if you don't have sort of an intentional mentorship or sponsorship, or understanding what that individual that that's, that's how you sort of partner in elevating each other. So I think that's one tactic in particular is having someone who are multiple people who you're working with to make sure that you're championing for each other in and out of teams, you need to be able to with intention, speak up for yourself to know who your allies are, and what the actual protocol is for being able to provide that awareness. But as I think some of that shifts in this dynamic as well, in terms of who really needs to be aware, and what sort of impact and influence actually look like, you know, we, we have dynamics where things are shifted, and we're limited even around promotions or merit increases, I think some of the onus is also on the managers to open the door and create opportunities for people to be able to self advocate. And there's probably a training opportunity somewhere in there. You know, we know that from a manager standpoint, managers are under a tremendous amount of pressure. But all managers are wired differently, right. So if you have a manager who is typically in a normal working environment struggles through the niceties of how was your weekend before they can get to the deliverables in this environment where we're anticipating that people are need to be mindful of psychological safety, even for their their team members people might not be equipped for for that, and it's not even necessarily a fault or negative around the individual they need to we need to be able to expect managers to do some of that. So I think the ways in which we also train and let managers understand that it is going to be more difficult for people to to self advocate in this environment is going to be important.

Peter Szczerba - Let's pivot for a moment what role has bravery played in your career growth,

Geraldine White - the element of bravery is something that was instilled in me from childhood. My father, I there were definitely a long list of things that I was not allowed to do. And it's not, it's not a typical list that probably maybe comes to mind. Like I was taught that I was not allowed to not vote, for example, there were just certain things just just by virtue of all of the the effort and struggle that had happened before me that it was there was no way that I was I was going to be able to absolve myself of the responsibility of certain things. One of the things that he also taught me and really was very, very quite persistent, about making sure I got this message was that I was not allowed to be intimidated. He very specifically would say, if you waste your time in life, worrying about the limitations that someone else is going to put on you, because of their own lack of understanding and what they're ascribing to you about your abilities based on your being a woman and being a black woman, that you're never going to get anything accomplished. bypass it. And do not be intimidated. And that translated, you know, ultimately to bravery to the point where there were definitely multiple times throughout my career where, like a young woman, for example, would come and say like, like, how did you? Can you just tell me how you did that, like completely bypass the boys club. And in a way, I realized that what my father had told me, he had put blinders on me to a certain extent. So I was like, oh, but there was a boys club. And it's not that I don't believe that those things exist, they absolutely do. But it was sort of up to me to a certain extent, how I allow those things to limit whether I was going to engage or just be intimidated by it and not even bother.

Adrienne Graham - It's such a great story. If you waste your time in life worrying about the limitations someone else puts on you, you're never going to get anything accomplished.

Geraldine White - Yeah, and it's I think, you know, Adrian, it's so easy, especially with today when you have so many things that tell you otherwise. I mean, we can have this as a totally separate conversation. But I think that there's a very interesting dynamic about some of the things that come up about it specifically about about racism and anti blackness as it relates to the to the US where parents consistently and this is not just about you know, our black talent. This is about people in the margins overarching. There is this there is this lesson these lessons that beyond look both ways before you cross the street, and Don't talk to strangers, there is an element of you have to work twice as hard to be half as good. And even though those teachings are done with the intent for betterment and preparedness, you have to know that from just from a overarching psychological standpoint, the same ways that someone tells a child like you're never going to be anything, you're never gonna amount to anything, it's drilled into your head to anticipate it in every situation. It's when you have someone who comes to this country, potentially, from Jamaica or Africa, who or a more homogenous environment where that lesson wasn't necessarily taught in that same way. They don't see or perceive some of the same barriers. That's where you get some of the elements of likeability. I mean, this is the land of opportunity, you can make anything happen. It's so it's some of the sort of, it also creates a barrier. I think it's important, I think the lessons are important. But they also, you know, in some cases can be damaging or limiting. And so I'm continually grateful. It's not that I didn't have those lessons. But I think that notion of, oh, by the way, this is what it is. But damn it, you better ignore it. Like it doesn't exist, if you anticipate to get anything done, is strike the balance for me that actually made me push forward beyond it.

Adrienne Graham - I would really love for the listeners to had a very specific example of a time that you have advocated for yourself at any point in your career path. Is there a time?

Geraldine White - There is and interestingly enough, I had to advocate for myself, but it was also in the spirit of advocating for others, which is probably why I was able to sort of step in and do it. So skillfully, you know, I shared initially that when it comes to being mindful of people in the margins. And when elements of microaggression or other things come up, I tended to start to take the opportunity to have it as a more of a learning moment, and what good can come out of it. So when I when I share the anecdote about what happened in the elevator, the one of the key takeaways for me was that it wasn't just happening to me that it was happening to other people in the margins, but the other pieces that I still had to from that elevator, walk into a client meeting and and kill it. And so you know, a specific example that actually had something to do with a client was a presentation that I had to give, we had done an effort to create a product recommendation tool for a beauty client. And the end consumer, the user happened to be for women of color, we actually were really proud of the effort, because there were just a lot of intricacies in in developing it. And it was quite a lot of complicated layers to getting the the sort of tool off the ground. So we go and we present it, I end up being the person to do the actual presentation. And it is a very senior level client, and limiting what I'm saying about the like sort of the review type, because I don't want to reveal who the client is. The client sort of looked at me from across the table. And this isn't a boardroom, they were probably about 20 people in the room, including my team, those that I reported to and those that reported to me at the time, and the client looked at me and said, You know, this is amazing work. But it's too smart. In my opinion for this consumer, I don't even know that this consumer has, this will give me an indication at the time, that consumer even has broadband access, or the ability to really understand how to use this tool. And again, ultimately, the end user was a woman of color, specifically, specifically black woman. So as a black woman, I and as I looked around the room, and they were a few other things that he said, I realized that no one on my team was going to come to my sort of defense or you know, sort of defend the work, or the or the effort or what we had done around the personas and around the consumer. And those who understood you know, what was actually happening in the room, most of them just put their their head down, if they could have disappeared from the room, they would have. And in that moment, especially because it was a client, I had the opportunity to either try to set the record straight and stand up for not just myself, but for the work that the team had put together. And as well as for for this consumer that I happen to represent. And so again, I took it as an educational opportunity and told him instead that this user actually over indexes for all the platforms that we've shared with you today, etc. And ultimately, we were able to push the work through when we you know, able to get a contract signed, but it took eight weeks for anyone to even acknowledge what had sort of transpired in the room to say anything to me about even the way that I had handled it. That notion for self advocacy is extremely important, especially in those situations where you know, no one else is going to speak up for you. You have to decide, ultimately, are you going to let it pass and you know, sort of let it manifest into making someone else feel comfortable, or are you going to call it out and correct it.

Adrienne Graham - Self advocacy is one thing, but everybody needs a little help. It would be interesting to know if you have some help along the way. Did you have great mentors? Did you seek them out yourself? What were the relationships that helped you move throughout your career?

Gerladine White - Beyond what I mentioned about childhood and some of the things that were instilled in me growing up, when I started my career on the on the client side at 1-800-Flowers, I worked with an amazing woman who saw my potential. She put me in my very first situation where I was presenting to C suite leadership. And even in that conversation, I actually had a hard stop. And she was impressed with the fact that I sort of, you know, said what I had to say and did my presentation and then excuse myself. And that part came from from some of the not being intimidated piece. But I think what's interesting about the the way that relationship continued, is a I was in awe of her to begin with, because she had taken this marketing role on at 1-800-Flowers, but she had previously worked for like doing marketing and McDonald's and she was literally living in Hawaii, doing marketing for McDonald's still to this day, you know, we as many conversations as we've had, I don't know why she left that particular job. I was really sort of disappointed when she ultimately left the organization because she had been such an inspiration for me, they definitely exposed me to careers that I didn't even know necessarily existed. But what I didn't expect to happen was a couple of months after that, she called me and said, you know, I need you on my team. So for me, I at that time with 1-800-Flowers being located the headquarters is in Westbury, Long Island, I live in Long Island I my commute to work was a 12 minute drive. And I had no anticipation of like really doing anything else at that time. But the role that she had left to take was in Manhattan at an ad agency. And when she called me, she said, I need you on my team. And I'm like, What are you talking about? Essentially, she had been hired to revamp the entire team. So she had to basically exit everyone and start over. That was her directive. And she asked me to join her. That was the first time which now I've been, had been commuting prior to COVID. For over 20 years. I took the opportunity. I worked with her while I got into Client Services. She was my VP group account director on the the businesses that I was working on, I enjoyed it, I had a tremendous amount of growth there. And then ultimately, she left and she went to Omnicom. And then same cadence Two months later, she called me and she's like, so I have to do the same thing again. But I need you on my team here. And so I left to join her there as well. So that same act happened one more time where she called me into her office and said, so I'm leaving. But this time she left for what was her own life calling. She had this amazing apartment on Central Park West and for the role and influence that she had in the organization. I've never, I don't think was more proud of her in terms of the things that she opted to do, she opted to go into the ministry. So she gave up everything she gave up that apartment, she gave up everything. And she went into into seminary, so what she's what she's doing to this day. So from then I you know, I was sort of on my own in terms of, you know, additional opportunities or what I might want to do, but the amount of exposure and contacts that I had, I was able to create based on the positions that I was in because I had sort of what ultimately started from a mentorship that sort of became the sponsor, then that's what I left Omnicom went to went to Publicis. But by then she had definitely instilled in me sort of like, even though you're not comfortable in terms of like, what you might want to ask for, this is how you need to position it and sort of like accept that follow up course to not being intimidated of sort of knowing your worth.

Peter Szczerba - With the strength of the legacy that your father has left you and the lessons that he imparted to you that impacted you so significantly, what have you done in your career to control the narrative around your own personal brand and story, and then how that's going to translate into how people remember you and what your legacy is.

Geraldine White - So it's interesting, because I definitely think that that has a tie in as well to the sort of self advocacy piece because in order to create your own own brand, you have to be able to or willing or wanting to tell that story as a priority. That part hasn't always been a priority for me has been more priority for me to do that for for other people. What I've found, though, in terms of the impact that that has had is that the takeaway that people often give that I get that I'm trusted, if I say something or I give guidance, people A, know and understand the place that it's coming from, it's always coming from Place of giving and growth never to minimize that I'm not going to steer anyone in a wrong direction. And that I'm pretty much often capable of being neutral. In a situation like I don't necessarily have to agree to give guidance. Typically, I think some of the key takeaways from interactions with me in terms of what my own legacy will indicate are elements of trust, elements of being able to be neutral enough in a situation to be mindful of all the perspectives that are engaged, and ideate towards the solution that is best for everyone. I think there's also an element of do no harm, right? So it's about sort of striking the balance of what is best for the greater good, but at the same time, being mindful of sort of the the consequences that come from getting to whatever that final solution is.